For all of those who have wanted to play God...

[SDragon]

thought: assuming this isnt some emperors new clothes scheme, and assuming the baby universe really does have a completely seperate time/space continuum.....

who says "time"  in baby-U starts at the point when the japanese scientist create it? put another way, how do we know that, upon creation (according to our t/s continuum), baby-U hasnt already been going on for millenia (according to baby-U t/s continuum)?

if this is the case, are we still faced with the ethical dillema of the fates of countless sentiant species?

[Elven Doritos]

I'm not sure I follow your statement. Are you asserting the space-time will expand into an already-existing timestream, therefore "polluting" or "overwriting" it?

[limetom]

Let's just hope that no one involved is named Akira or Tetsuo.

...knowing some common Japanese names, this is impossible.

[SDragon]

well, assuming the creation of the baby universe can be pinpointed to a single second- say, the 37th second of 1200h (noon), on july 16, 2010. from what i understand, so far, were running under the assumption that this second in our time will be the first seond in baby universe's timeline.

if baby-U has a completely seperate time/space continuum, then whats the basis of that assumption? whos to say that the 37th second of 1200, july 16, 2010, wouldnt be equivalent to the 97th second in baby-U time? or, even further, how do we know it hasnt developed to the point where a sentient baby-U race developed a calander, and could say it was the year 206, as according to the king glafklaf?

if this is the case, then the scientist didnt really set the wheels in motion to create sentient races; in the baby-U time/space continuum, sentience had already existed for who-knows-how-long. are we still left with the ethical dillema of the fates of these races?

[beejazz]

Humans are stupid...

We're all gonna die...

But yes, I do want to play God...

I'd be satisfied with divine rank zero.

[Túrin]

if this is the case, then the scientist didnt really set the wheels in motion to create sentient races; in the baby-U time/space continuum, sentience had already existed for who-knows-how-long. are we still left with the ethical dillema of the fates of these races?

Yes we would. Regardless of whether or not the creation of the baby-universe coincides (measured in our time) with the first moment of its existence (in its own time, assuming the new universe even knows time as we know it) or whether the creation (measured in our time) coincides with the rule of FlakFlak the Second, there is still a direct causal relation between the actions of Japanese scientists and the existence of the baby-universe, even though the timeframe is distorted because we are working between dimensions. So:

Cause:
Japanese scientists bring a particle to nearly-infinite mass (if I understand correctly, doesn't matter for my point though).

leads to

Effect:
A universe is created which may contain sentient life.

This means we are responsible, regardless of the order of time in which things happen.

Having that said (IMO, having proven that we are responsible for its creation regardless whatever I am going to say next), I would like to further speculate on your idea of different time-frames.

Let's assume that what we read in the article is right, and there will be a new four-dimensional universe separated from ours by another (let's assume for simplicity that it is just one) fifth dimension. Then, when thinking on the level of that fifth dimension, the two universes are not two changing three-dimensional spaces, but four-dimensional static entities: if time is not change, but another dimension, time as we know it no longer exists, and the universe would turn from a three-dimensional space that is subject to change, to an immutable four-dimensional space-time that is not subject to any change whatsoever.

If this is making any sense (Salacious Angel once had a campaign setting that incorporated this idea, so he might be able to explain it better than I am) then there is no point to comparing the times of the different universes: because they exist in different dimensions, they are not directly analogue to one specific point in the other universe.

To show what I mean with a three-dimensional example: suppose we have a three-dimensional grid with three axes, x, y and z. We might take a single point on the x-axis, say x = 5. Were we then to move across the y-axis, we could once again fix a value for x, say x = 7. However, the value for x we end up with after moving across the y-axis completely depends on which direction we traveled in: had we traveled perpendicular to the y-axis, we would have found x = 5 after our move, but we might also have traveled with lots of curves, and end up at x = 100.

Now let's try to view our three-dimensional universe as one-dimensional for simplicity, and give it the z-axis in my example. Time would then be the x-axis, and the y-axis would be the mysterious fifth dimension that separates us from the baby-universe. Now at a certain point in time x = 5 we move across the y-axis to the baby-universe. However, we don't know if we will travel in a straight line, so we might end up with very different values for x and z after coming to the baby-universe. Thus there is no direct relation or analogy to time in our universe and time in the baby-universe, because they are two completely separate "times".

As I write this, however, I realize that it might very well be possible to define the analogy you were talking about as "the closest point", i.e. the analogous time and place in the baby-universe compared to our universe would be the orthogonal projection of the x and z axes on the y-axis. Then you theory might very well hold, and it is a real possibility that this relation is warped: it might not just be: [time in baby-universe] = [time in our universe] + 10, but the relation might be reversed or whatever. Thus, the creation of the baby-universe here in our universe might coincide with the rule of king Flakflak II in the baby-universe, who decides a few weeks later to let his scientists proceed with their latest experiment (which is universe creation) thus creating our universe. :o

Just some random and most likely unintelligible thoughts...
Túrin

[beejazz]

lol mutual creation paradox!

[SDragon]

wow... i ran into what was essentially the same problem when i wrote the prior post, and i suspected it wouldve been a million times more complicated when written out....

say, on the Q axis (time) we currently exist (at the exact instant this post is completely submitted) at 437. we start out at 0 ("big bang"), and steadily advance 1/gagglesec (leaving, of course, 437 gagglsecs between the big bang and now). since th creation of baby-U would be an immesuarebly small fraction of a gagglesec later then now, we can safely say its in the same gagglesec, with no major loss. this leaves our current X/Y/Z/Q coordinates something like, 4/19/13/437 (+1/gagglesec), and our starting coordinates 4/19/13/0 (+1/gagglesec).

baby-U exists on a completely seperate 4D grid (possibly right next to ours, as per the fifth dimension), with coordinates of 15/32/5/10 (+1/year).

what my question proposed was, how would those first 10 years (baby-U time) be handled in our universe? would we be responsible for the events that took place? could we be held responible for them?

edit- please note, that while im positive it could very easily be much more of a complex corelation then that, im keeping it this simple for my sake; any further complications would be, as far as this question is concerned, unneccessary, and... well, complicating.

edit 2- also note, this situation can very easily be claimed in the 'emperors new clothes' scam, presented above. im just going on the assumption (however accurate or inaccurate it may be) that this isnt a scam.

[CYMRO]

im just going on the assumption (however accurate or inaccurate it may be) that this isnt a scam.

Big assumption, but assuming so:

If the acceleration of a particular particle means the creation of another universe, then it is just one of a overwhelming number of universes being created constantly by the large but unknown number of natural and unnatural phenomena that can and will accelerate said particle.

Eat the right combination of hot peppers and I bet you, too, can accelerate some quantum particles.  Whether or not it gives birth to a new universe or just reduces the air quality in this one is open for debate.

They can't make a reliable space shuttle.  They have not presented a safe, cheap alternative to  fossil fuels.  They do not understand how the human brain works.  They cannot accurately predict even the simplest weather.  They cannot cure cancer.
But they claim they can create another universe.
Riiiighhht.  

[Elven Doritos]

They can't make a reliable space shuttle.

On this point, I have to disagree-- every major shuttle disaster occured because NASA proceeded regardless of warnings from the manufacturers and supervisiory companies of the component products. I have word for this from a very reliable and very informed source.

So, it's not that they can't make a reliable space shuttle. It's that they can't find a reliable human to manage the thing.

[beejazz]

Meh, the appeal of the story isn't what they're going to do. It's what they're trying to do... and, on that note, why the fuck they want to do it.

[CYMRO]

On this point, I have to disagree-- every major shuttle disaster occured because NASA proceeded regardless of warnings from the manufacturers and supervisiory companies of the component products.

It is made of ceramic tile that they can't make stick on reliably!

It ain't the disasters that make it unreliable.  It is the astronomical cost of maintenance and basically rebuilding the stupid thing after every flight.  
Unreliable.
Biplanes can fly in weather they scrub a space shuttle launch over.
Unreliable.

[CYMRO]

Meh, the appeal of the story isn't what they're going to do. It's what they're trying to do... and, on that note, why the fuck they want to do it.

They are trying to avoid real work, solving real problems.

[beejazz]

That's... BRILLIANT! We should all take an example from these scientists. Rather than rely on labor-saving devices to lighten our workload, we should all just LOOK BUSY in order to avoid labor to begin with!

[SDragon]

im just going on the assumption (however accurate or inaccurate it may be) that this isnt a scam.

Big assumption, but assuming so:

If the acceleration of a particular particle means the creation of another universe, then it is just one of a overwhelming number of universes being created constantly by the large but unknown number of natural and unnatural phenomena that can and will accelerate said particle.

Eat the right combination of hot peppers and I bet you, too, can accelerate some quantum particles.  Whether or not it gives birth to a new universe or just reduces the air quality in this one is open for debate.

They can't make a reliable space shuttle.  They have not presented a safe, cheap alternative to  fossil fuels.  They do not understand how the human brain works.  They cannot accurately predict even the simplest weather.  They cannot cure cancer.
But they claim they can create another universe.
Riiiighhht.  

main difference here, of course, is intent and, (to a lesser extent) knowledge. when was the last time you ate something with the intent on creating a new universe? or better, how often does the average human eat something with that intent? for that matter, how often does the average human eat something with the knowledge that they may create a new universe?

i never said i believe they really are doing what they claim to be doing, nor did i say that its possible to use their methods to do it. i posed my hypothesis with no mention of how they do it, only is they do it.