Have you ever wanted to ... Have Xev create new crunch for you?

[Xeviat]

Recently my creativity has become very focused on the rules of the game. I've written one article for the CBGuide, and I am working on a handful of new combat manuevers (Knock Back for one) and possible alterations to others (Bull Rush, Overrun, and Trip ... I'm looking at you). But in the interest of the community, I thought of something which might be fun.

Have you (or one of your players, if you DM) ever wanted your character to do something that wasn't covered by the rules? Something that seems simple enough physically to not require a feat to simply perform?

I'm sure this has happened to many gamers, and more rules oriented DMs prefer to have mechanics so they can feel they are running the game fairly. I'm not intending to open a story teller vs. mechanics DMing style debate, so please let us not go there.

So, are there any mechanics you would like to see made? Give me an example or a situation and I'll see if I can use the existing rules to create something managable. If not, I'll see if I can create something entirely from scratch.

Let me know what you'd like to see.

[beejazz]

Choking people.
Pure and simple... grab the throat, crush the hyoid, watch 'em gasp and turn all kindsa pretty clors. I mean, it's so fun in re... I mean... violence is ABHORRENT.

[Xeviat]

Choking people is a difficult one; thanks! (not sarcastic, I'm serious).

The first way to simulate this is simply the grapple rules. If your grapple check is exceedingly higher than your foe's, you will be able to maintain the grapple and deal damage every round, while your foe will not be able to damage you in return. Sure, a few things may happen (your foot could get stepped on, or you could get elbowed), but by and large, if you have a larger grapple bonus, you're going to win.

At first level, your average warrior mook will have 4+con mod HP (lets say Con is their 2nd highest stat, so they have a 12 con and thus 5 hp, what with NPC default array being 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8). Your average first level PC warrior will deal 1d3+str (probably has a 14 str, so 1d3+2 for an average of 4 damage a round).

Thus, choking said target will only take 2 rounds, with a 3rd round for a coup de grace.

The suffocation rules don't need to be brought in, because choking is more about stopping blood flow than air flow (I believe, I could be wrong).

The only other thing I could see is possibly throwing in a power attack-esque rule for grapple, where you can take a penalty to your grapple check to increase your grapple damage.

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I'm pretty sure that wasn't satisfactory, but you said choking and not something more difficult like slitting throats or breaking necks.

The only other thing I can say is add in Critical Grapple checks. If you roll a 20 on a grapple check, your grapple check automatically succeeds (no matter your opponent's roll); if you roll a 1 on a grapple check, you automatically fail. Additionally, after a roll of 20, you and your opponent roll again; if your check is successful the second time, you deal double grapple damage.

This could represent establishing an especially painful grip, and would add together with a WP/VP system to simulate breaking necks or slitting throats.

But I ultimately think the grapple rules simulate choking well enough. Improved Grapple will make you even better, and Supreme Unarmed Strike (Tome of Battle) will boost your unarmed damage. Simple rules for a Garrote can be made as just drastically increasing your damage and giving you a nice bonus on your grapple check (I forget the actual Song and Silence rules).

Getting slightly more complicated, you could bring items into the mix. Having a chain weapon, be it a nunchaku, a spiked chain, or a flail, should make it easier to conduct a grapple (heck, even a rope would); it is simply harder to pull a rope off your neck than an arm. The weapon could increase your grapple damage, or simply deal weapon damage (I'd be weary of this, though, and I'd be more comfortable with a simple system of increasing unarmed damage by one step).

Not sure what else to say. Is that satisfactory, or do you think a new mechanic is really necessary. Sell me on it, tell me what you want to accomplish that you can't with the grapple rules.

[beejazz]

Yeah, I was tempted to use suffocation rules on a pin (not quite sure yet how that would have worked) but this is pretty awesome. Thanks.

[Xeviat]

Suffocation on a pin is really simple. At low levels, a character can only pin when conducting a pin; there's simply nothing else the character can do. Since you can keep someone from speaking during a pin, I think it's pretty safe to say that with the proper equipment, or even without it, you could suffocate during a pin as well.

The problem is that it takes a long time for someone to die from suffication, at least as far as rounds of combat are concerned. Since the pinned opponent will most likely be struggling, they have a number of rounds equal to their constitution modifier before they have to start making fortitude saves. The only advantage to this over standard grapple damage is that the pinned foe has no chance of damaging you in return if you succeed your pin checks (where grappling would require you to not only succeed your offensive grapple checks, but also succeed the defensive grapple checks). I'm not a statistician, but I since the same modifiers are used, it's best to deal with less rolls than more rolls.

So yeah, just consider pinned to be the same as under water, if the pinner chooses. You're going to have to win on average 10 consecutive pins against your average human, so it's really not beneficial to do this.

Sleeper holds, though, would be conducted with feats, just like stunning fist.

[shadowls]

rules for chars before 1st level? the idea behind it is your char just left home to start his life as X, Y, or Z, but you have to get to the accadamy first. on your way you can end up in encounters that give you xp, but your not training in X, Y, or Z yet, so me as Dm have probs at that point.

[Túrin]

Good one. I'm curious what Xeviat will come up with. By the way, do you know the "0th-level rules" from DMG 3.0?

Túrin

[shadowls]

that's the whole problem, i've read the DMG 3.0 and there aren't any, persay. the only rules they have is for mulitclassing at 1st level

[Túrin]

That's what I was referring to. It might be used as a starting point.

[shadowls]

good point.

[Xeviat]

Turin already knows me too well: I'd use the 3.0 zero level rules as well. Interestingly enough, I am trying to work 0 levels into normal level progression, creating abilities that a character only gets for their 1st class level and not when they multiclass. Such abilities would be like a class's +2 bonus to their high saves, weapon/armor proficiencies, and others.

I'll see what I can put together for a formal 0-level system. But reading over your example, I believe I have a different solution: change the commoner.

The D&D commoner is an NPC class. The problem is that there is no rules in the DMG to help a DM understand why one NPC remains a commoner and another NPC becomes an Expert or a Warrior. Another issue is with humanoids with more than 1 racial HD; what are their commoners?

The simple answer came to me when I was reading the Starwars rules. Commoner simply is a base human (or other race), and since humans have no racial hit dice, a base human has 0 HD (this works with the WP/VP system, since the base human still has wound points; but it would be fair to give a commoner a 1d4 HD in standard D&D, just to throw them a bone).

So, a "commoner" has a 1d4 HD, 0 BAB, 0 in all saves, no skill points, and no feats. You cannot level up as commoner, as it is weaker than a humanoid HD in every way.

I don't know how many XP you should have to earn to reach first, but 400 seems like a reasonable amount. Every time you earn 100 xp you gain 1x your class's skill points (you have 4x at first level, so this way you slowly gain your skill points). At 200 xp, you gain the 0 level benefit for your future class, and at 400 xp you gain the full benefits of 1st level.

Sound cool?

[Túrin]

Ha, beat you to the punch! :P

Seriously though, good points. Since this is used for children and/or adults that have no fighting experience whatsoever, I'd suggest to just give them 1 hp (or possibly a 1d2 HD) rather than 1d4. Most ordinary people, I think, would be seriously hindered by any serious injury, which corresponds nicely to being disabled after only 1 hp of damage.

On another note, anyone have any idea why the 0th-level rules didn't appear in 3.5, while at the same time no suggestion whatsoever is given about what stats pre-class-level-characters (specifically children) should have?

Túrin

[shadowls]

i have a prob with no skills, only because you may not be highly skilled, but you can cook and clean and such.  

[Túrin]

You don't need skill points for that. I mean, how many characters have skill points in Profession (cooking) and Profession (cleaning)?

Túrin

[shadowls]

true, it's not like your trying to cook for the king or any thing