A Good Point That Ishmayl Brought Up: The Ultimate Thread of Final Destiny and Kryptonite Rings

[Kindling]

Unfortunately Superman would probably win, which is what makes him suck. Y'see, there's no tension with Superman, cause he's.. well... super..

It's boring, cause he can do pretty much ANYTHING better than anyone else.

Batman on the other hand, rocks, cause he's just some really clever, athletic guy with martial arts skillz.

And he gets PUNISHED a lot of the time, which is good, cause you're actually like OMFG HOW THE HEL IS HE GONNA GET OUT OF THIS ONE!

Plus, image wise, he shits all over Superman.

Yeah, Batman owns. Only, Superman would win. But Batman would look really cool while losing, and like... just be better while losing.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Speaking of Doom (the greatest villain alive along with luthor since they are the only two to really succeed - magneto is close to the awesome list too) Doom vs Batman is a fight i would really love to see. I think Doom could even take down Bats.

Yes i said it. Doom could take down Batman.

Tough, Superstrong, Brilliant stategist, owns a country, wicked scientist, and powerful sorceror - Doom's got it all.

Heh, there was an 8-bit theatre comic along these lines, unfortunately I don't remember which so I can't link to it.

[brainface]

Yeah, Batman owns. Only, Superman would win. But Batman would look really cool while losing, and like... just be better while losing.

Yeah... honestly, if Batman becomes the guy that can Beat Anyone... With PREP TIME(tm)! then he ceases to be an interesting character. :P

[Darkxarth]

Batman. he keeps doing it over and over again, how many more examples do you need?

Dr. Doom vs. Batman Part 1[/url]
Part Deux

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Thanks Darkxarth, that's it.

[Darkxarth]

Yup, it took me ten minutes of searching to find, but I got it.  I love 8-Bit Theater.

[Captain Obvious]

WooHoo. Doom FTW yo. They ended up with the right answer.

[Epic Meepo]

On that note, when are they finally going to have a Hal Jordan cameo on Smallville? I mean, seriously, they have a multi-week story arc featuring freakin' pansy-ass Green Arrow, but they can't have just one appearance by Green [i/]Lantern[/i]! What's up with that? A Green Lantern is an intergalactic cop. Clark Kent is in the middle of a battle against a horde of intergalactic criminals that escaped from the Phantom Zone. How hard is this one to figure out?

They could even declare that one of the escaped criminals is a rogue Green Lantern, for cryin' out loud. And it's not as though Smallville hasn't introduced the conecept of Kryptonian technology that just happens to thematically resemble properties similar to those of Hal Jordan's power ring. And incidentally, Green Arrow - who already appears regularly on Smallville, mind you - was Green Lantern's sidekick at one point in time.

Hello, Smallville writers! How can you have gone this long without having Hal Jordan appear on your show?[/spoiler]
But getting back to Batman vs. Superman, the fight wouldn't be as straightforward as everyone assumes.

Firstly, while everyone backing Batman assumes that Batman would defeat Superman with kryptonite, I beg to disagree. Superman is also vulnerable to magic, and Batman is both aware that magic exists and aware that it is more versatile than a rock whose two primary properies are glowing and F-ing with Superman.

Secondly, Batman is paranoid, especially when it comes to alien and metahuman heroes. While it may not be spelled out in any given issue of any given comic, I don't think its safe to discount the fact that Batman may have added magical wards to his person, his gear, and his lair.

However, we must thirdly recognize that Batman would likely be unwilling to inplement any measures that would actively interfere with Superman's powers prior to Superman going rogue. Batman reluctantly accepts that the world needs other heroes, and that he can't just go around pre-emptively curtailing their powers just because he's paranoid.

And as others have already pointed out, Superman has super-speed, and thus can act rather fast once he goes rogue.

So here's my take on the battle between Batman and Superman: Despite Batman's superior badassitude, Superman flies in obliterates Batman without too much trouble. However, despite Superman's awesome destructive power, Batman ultimately survives by virtue of magical wards that can counteract the effects of Kryptonian powers, or some other, similar defense. Though incapicitated - possibly during a harrowing and painful process of resurrection - Batman survives the initial battle. Later, when all hope seems lost, Batman returns for the rematch. And from that point forward, Batman owns Superman. Every rematch belongs to Batman, no contest.

(All of the above is operating under the assumption that Batman is fighting Superman because Superman has gone rogue. If, on the other hand, Batman goes rogue, then Batman wins, no contest. Only some alliance of powerful heroes and/or villains could overcome Batman's resourcefulness, should Batman turn villainous and decide to pre-emptively take out his rivals.)

[Elven Doritos]

However, we must thirdly recognize that Batman would likely be unwilling to inplement any measures that would actively interfere with Superman's powers prior to Superman going rogue. Batman reluctantly accepts that the world needs other heroes, and that he can't just go around pre-emptively curtailing their powers just because he's paranoid.

And as others have already pointed out, Superman has super-speed, and thus can act rather fast once he goes rogue.[/quote]

Which Bats has probably taken account for. Otherwise, I agree with your assertions.

[SDragon]

here's my take on the fight, second-by-second:

second 1: supes goes rogue.
second 2: batman feels a pain in his back. he also dies.
second 3: superman enjoys a margarita after a job well done.

[Epic Meepo]

Remember that huge-ass satellite he built in outer space? "Brother Eye"? That was a pretty pre-emptive measure. He also had those specialized directives designed to kill the other Leaguers back in that one JLA arc... and he probably has plenty of contingency plans.

And as others have already pointed out, Superman has super-speed, and thus can act rather fast once he goes rogue.

Even computer-operated contingencies are restricted to the speed of light, since they have to detect a threat before they can respond. That means there are really only two ways to stop someone attacking you at or near the speed of light: 1) Take away their speed before they decide to attack you or 2) have a contingency that allows you to survive their first strike. (Mind-reading, supernatural precognitive powers, and time travel also work, but those are among the few resources that Batman doesn't seem to exploit on a regular basis.)

I think Batman would choose the second option in preference to the first. He wouldn't risk accidentally cutting off the powers of a non-rogue superhero when he could instead just put in place protections that allow him to recover from the full-strength effects of those powers. That is my reasoning for a lack of contingencies that eliminate the effects of super-speed before Superman could act.

[Darkxarth]

Personally, I think Superman would annihilate Batman.  I know I posted a quote from Red Mage that said otherwise, but that was his opinion, not mine.  I mean, Superman can move fast, REAL fast.  And, if it looks like he's losing, all he has to do is fly into space and hideout for a while.  It'll take Batman a few minutes to hop in the Bat-Space Shuttle and take off into space, by which time Superman is long gone.  Then, whenever Superman is ready, he hunts Batman down like a mouse.

[Elven Doritos]

Personally, I think Superman would annihilate Batman.  I know I posted a quote from Red Mage that said otherwise, but that was his opinion, not mine.  I mean, Superman can move fast, REAL fast.  And, if it looks like he's losing, all he has to do is fly into space and hideout for a while.  It'll take Batman a few minutes to hop in the Bat-Space Shuttle and take off into space, by which time Superman is long gone.  Then, whenever Superman is ready, he hunts Batman down like a mouse.

Your saying more time benefits *Superman*? Bats would never launch into space to deal with Superman, he'd launch missles that are programmed to track Kryptonian DNA, etc. "Master Strategy" =/= battling a god without using a few tricks.

[Epic Meepo]

It'll take Batman a few minutes to hop in the Bat-Space Shuttle and take off into space, by which time Superman is long gone.  Then, whenever Superman is ready, he hunts Batman down like a mouse.

But if Superman is running away and coming back later, that gives time for Batman to plan Superman-specific countermeasures. That's the exact scenario in which Batman has a clear advantage over Superman. Superman can only defeat Batman by hitting him hard and hitting him fast, before Batman knows what's coming.

EDIT: Also, if Superman spends all of his time in space, hiding from Batman, then Batman has won the fight because Batman owns the Earth, at least where Superman in concerned.

[beejazz]

I think I'd agree to both the "Batman comes back." scenario AND the assertion that a Rogue Batman pwns first time around. Because no one sees it coming until it's too late.

Because Supes might have x-ray vision, but he doesn't have detect alignment.