Xev20 attempt #2

[Xeviat]

Beejazz, your list is very much mental, but where would social fit into there? How would you specifically define the four broad traits, as you propose 5?

[beejazz]

Beejazz, your list is very much mental, but where would social fit into there? How would you specifically define the four broad traits, as you propose 5?

Normally, I'd use mental stats for social things. At the very least, will and perception lend themselves to use as social "saves." Will is the obvious mental resilience. Power could be logic. Flex could be creativity. Quickness could be instinct, as a sort of perception/charisma mix.

[Xeviat]

So rather than having an obvious "social" stat, you'd spread the social aspects across all of the mental stats? I'm not seeing where a "persuasion" type skill would fit in, and a "deception" type skill would only be tenuously a part of creativity.

Oh thinking outloud.

[beejazz]

So rather than having an obvious "social" stat, you'd spread the social aspects across all of the mental stats? I'm not seeing where a "persuasion" type skill would fit in, and a "deception" type skill would only be tenuously a part of creativity.

Oh thinking outloud.

Make friends with instinct. Persuade by logic or will. Intimidate by will. Lie with creativity. Just thoughts.

[Xeviat]

Hmmm ... something to think on. Instinct can have Insight, Logic could have Persuasion, Will can have Intimidate, and Creativity can have Deception. That would make Intimidate "earth" and Persuasion "fire", which may feel odd. Having Persuasion associated with logic is interesting, as diplomats are typically described as logical and reserved. Where would "charming" fit into this? Would "charming" be a trait associated with a feat, rather than part of your core abilities? Divorcing things like that may allow for different types of characters.

Intimidate seems a bit aggressive for "mental resilience". I understand why it fits in with Will, that's where it is in L5R, but it still seems strange.

Thanks for all the help so far!

[Xeviat]

I had an epiphany today (perhaps hyperbolic) on the ability scores. Rather than attacking the issue from a realistic simulationist angle, I decided to look at it more from a gamist angle. I looked at the boiled down mental skills (bluff, craft, diplomacy, heal, insight, intimidate, knowledge, notice) and identified the skills that I already had elements I wanted for them. I wanted intimidate for fire, craft for earth, and heal for water. I wanted to have two "mentals" and two "socials", and I also preferred the pairs to not be earth/fire and air/water, as those are the pairs for physical (constitution/strength, agility/dexterity). Since I didn't want fire/water or air/earth pairs, and since there was no way I was going to make Fire anything but social, I then sought a way to make Air social.

I haven't yet decided upon final names for the stats, but here is how they have shaped out:

Air; ?; Skills: Bluff, Insight; this ability score is about social intellect, the ability to sense a situation, and to deceive.
Earth; Reason?; Skills: Craft, Knowledge; this score is "book smarts"
Fire; Presence?; Skills: Diplomacy, Intimidate; this score is about social emotionalism, the ability to appeal to emotions and to inspire them in others.
Water; Awareness?; Skills: Heal, Notice; this score is "common sense"

Pairing diplomacy with insight (air) and bluff with intimidate (fire) could also work, but they don't end up suggesting an obvious sphere of magic. I am leaning towards having air's mental sphere of magic be illusion (typically ethereal and substanceless) and fire's sphere be charm (creating emotions).

I'm not 100% happy with this, but it's getting closer to feeling right.

Thoughts?

[Xathan]

Brief thought - since air has no attached noun, the first thing that came to mind since it's about lying and understanding people, but not about diplomacy, I'd call it either Empathy or Creativity - the latter feels more airy to me, and makes a good juxtaposition to Earth's Reason. Maybe split Craft (Artistic) and Preform into Air?

Overall the feel is nice - I'm really liking it. I'm awful at setting feedback (though great at working with them once they're done), so that's all I got for now, but I'll try to think and give more feedback later.

[Xeviat]

Empathy was a noun I was looking at. WoD has Presence, Manipulation, and Composure as its 3 socials, but I don't think I can quite adapt that. Do you think Bluff/Insight works better as a pair for air since Air mental magic is leaning towards being Illusion? Diplomacy/Insight works really well archetypically, and I'd really like to have Diplomacy and Intimidate on different stats since they can function towards the same result. But would it be odd for Bluff to be Fire yet Illusion be Air? I could reconcile that in my mind: Fire's charm magic is about making someone believe or do something, where Air's illusion magic is about showing them as they can still choose to disbelieve if they interact with it. Illusion is about tricking, Charm is about forcing.