Magitech Without Duplication

[Xathan]

One thing I'm working on for Xeno Fantaseum in my free time is "magitech" - though I use the term loosly. I want magic to matter so the setting isn't just another timelocked medieval fantasy, but I don't want "It's an airplane - WITH MAGIC!" "it's a cellphone - WITH MAGIC!" "It's a refrigerator - WITH MAGIC!"

In short, I don't want to just duplicate modern technology with magic as opposed to electricty, but running into a roadblock:

How the hell do you do this?

That's where you all come in - I'd love some thoughts on ways to handle this.

EDIT: As an aside, pictures of things that would work would actually be incredibly awesome.

EDIT2: As SabrWolf pointed out over chat, "ideas" is far too vague. What I'm looking for is things that utilize magic to pull the world out of the dark ages but aren't just direct analogues of modern technology - those I can think of in spades. Things that make magic matter. In fact, I'm looking for niche's modern technology doesn't fill or ways to fill those niche's in ways technology couldn't, doesn't, or wouldn't. Things like, for example (since I finally had some ideas) Invisibility Cloaks, Armor that renders the wearer insubstantial, ways to feed entire cities, medical cures that modern tech couldn't manage, communication methods that work over long distances but aren't analogies to cellphones/the interwebs, etc.

[Ghostman]

Attachable magitech wings enable you to fly.

Magitech pointer-device always points to a specified place or object (like compass needle, but you can configure it to point e.g. at your dog so you can find it if it runs away).

Magitech door opens only to those who have been invited to enter your house.

Magitech megafone carries your voice perfectly audibly over very long distances, and translates your words to a different language if desired.

[sparkletwist]

I think the best solution is to think through the basis of your technology, and then consider how that technology would actually work to provide modern conveniences. The most interesting, I think, is when you come up with something that is not simply "better" (because then it just feels like "wizards did it") or "worse" (because then the setting just feels premodern) but rather something that has both more advanced capabilities and also more interesting limitations, simply due to the technology it's based on.

For example, in Asura, communication crystals can be paired, allowing nearly flawless and instant wireless communication, but only with the mated crystal. In order to transmit between two non-mated crystals, it requires physical contact between the crystals. This means that on the one hand, their telecommunications are entirely wireless and very reliable, but on the other hand, large hand-operated and/or mechanical switchboards are still required.

[Xathan]

Ghost man: that's some awesome stuff - I'm getting a ton of ideas from it.

Sparkle: you're absolutely right. (brief aside, but such a mechanism would likely be how FTL quantum entangled communication would have to work)  focusing on similar with interesting implications is the way to go, and that's where I'm gonna put my effort.

[Nomadic]

I'm having to do this in my setting actually. In order to pull it off I had to drop the concept of magic versions of things and instead look at magic components. By which I mean the individual parts of things are magic and they weren't even necessarily designed to do what they are being utilized for. As an example say you have a rod of steel that is enchanted to course electricity through its length whenever it is struck against something. Perhaps it was designed by the artificer as part of an electrical generator. However someone harvested the rod and gave it to a craftsman who safely embedded it into a hilt creating something that looks like a sword but electrocutes the person it hits instead of cutting them. Furthermore all of this stuff is unique. The infinite size of the setting means that the chances of duplicate items exists but even when you find another lightning rod chances are it will be sized and shaped differently and the product crafted from it will likewise have a different feel. It gives a specialness to each rare artifact someone finds as they don't get to decide what they find, but they do get to think up ways of how best they can utilize it to help them. The only magitech that is common enough to manufacture multiple things out of would be the clockwork. Clockwork however is more limited in that it is mainly a collection of a few different types of magic components (gears, boilers, pistons, prisms, and such). It still can be used to do some incredible things though.

[LordVreeg]

Xathan...you going to be on IRC tonight?  I did not do modern...
But I have very consiously gotten to the point of the Enlightenment or a bit further.  Love to talk about this, since it involves not just tech analogues as creating the background and historical background to give this more veracity.

[Xathan]

Nomadic: some interesting parallels there and definitely gives me food for thought, but we're taking some different approaches (which I like) - as cool as all items being unique would be, I'm going for more standardized technology.

Vreeg: probably will be on but very inactive, 90% of my focus will be on studying for my finals tomorrow. We'll have to do it another time?

[Nomadic]

Nomadic: some interesting parallels there and definitely gives me food for thought, but we're taking some different approaches (which I like) - as cool as all items being unique would be, I'm going for more standardized technology.

Is your setting a magic as technology setting? If so then yes I'd say standardizing it would be important. If not then I say why not have both and let the technology be the standard and the magic be special. Just my 2 gp.

[Xathan]

Yeah, magic is technology - I am going to be doing plenty of clockwork, steamdriven, deiselpowered, and nuclear power for the various iterations of TM, so I figured I'd stick to magic = tech. That being said, I'm going to have different types of magic, and one type is going to be magic is special, more powerful and rare than the more common magic tech.

[Lmns Crn]

I often think it's useful, for this sort of thing, to imagine your magic phenomenon and then extrapolate its applications, arriving at your "magic technology" that way. (As opposed to starting with what kind of tech applications for magic you want to exist.)

That is to say, if you start with something like

There's a type of mystic in this world with the power to create/alter/move psychic constructions. These constructions are invisible and intangible, but they contain and direct energy, according to their shape. Once a mystic gets a structure the way he likes it, the structure can be made to persist without further concentration.

...we may end up with some surprising ramifications from a single power. Perhaps a common type of lighting involves invisible, hovering globes filled with fire. Perhaps intangible conductive filaments have made a form of rudimentary circuitry possible, and these circuits run on electricity/fire/mana/whatever. Perhaps buildings or ships are enclosed in invisible domes that ward off lightning and heat, and this makes it possible to build or travel in areas that would otherwise be totally inhospitable-- maybe there's an entire colony inside a single huge invisible dome, at the entrance to the Nether Void Realm (or whatever). Maybe there are weapons which operate by gathering ambient energy and redirecting it, concentrated, to harm the target at the end of these invisible filaments, like a taser with invisible, intangible wires, or a stinging jellyfish with invisible tentacles.

Sometimes, as an idle thought exercise, I like to imagine a small new technology or simple bit of magic (genetically engineered fungus eats gravel, excretes topsoil; diviners who can look into any mirror and see out of any other mirror regardless of distance; etc.) and see how far it'll take me. Sometimes you get some crazy, unexpected things! Hopefully this kind of thought experiment will prove useful to you as well.

[beejazz]

Start with scifi and fantasy and skip modern convenience.

Figure out how casting is done. It doesn't have to be fire and forget. You could have runes, rituals, alchemy, and binding. All of these could take standard spell effects and make them feel more "technological." Because in all of the above cases, someone who didn't cast the spell could use the effect. And each has benefits and limitations. Runes could be permanent but static. Potions are portable, but one-use. Rituals take too long. Binding might require capturing dangerous spirits, and will only create artifacts.

And what LC said. Start with a power and think of uses for it.

Example: Static, permanent portals would change everything. War, trade, everything. So would invisibility potions. So would mind reading and mental manipulation. And if you think only necromancers would use zombies, and only to fight, you'd be mistaken. Can you imagine the lower caste of agricultural workers replaced with mindless immortals?

[Nomadic]

And if you think only necromancers would use zombies, and only to fight, you'd be mistaken. Can you imagine the lower caste of agricultural workers replaced with mindless immortals?

Mindless zombies used for hard labor, especially in agriculture opens up some interesting thoughts. Perhaps there are people uneasy with the thought of zombies (there's bound to be some). The thought of undead hands touching or even being around your food might be appalling to some people even in a society that uses them regularly. Maybe there are people who only use living people in their farms. It's more expensive which drives the cost of certified zombie free produce up. Interesting things could come of this. People passing off zombie grown stuff as zombie free, thieves stealing the premium stuff, ideological arguments between those who only eat zombie free and those who think the zombie free people are stuck up sissies.

[beejazz]

And if you think only necromancers would use zombies, and only to fight, you'd be mistaken. Can you imagine the lower caste of agricultural workers replaced with mindless immortals?

Mindless zombies used for hard labor, especially in agriculture opens up some interesting thoughts. Perhaps there are people uneasy with the thought of zombies (there's bound to be some). The thought of undead hands touching or even being around your food might be appalling to some people even in a society that uses them regularly. Maybe there are people who only use living people in their farms. It's more expensive which drives the cost of certified zombie free produce up. Interesting things could come of this. People passing off zombie grown stuff as zombie free, thieves stealing the premium stuff, ideological arguments between those who only eat zombie free and those who think the zombie free people are stuck up sissies.

Also, if the zombies are a new thing they could be "stealing jobs." Or if they're old news they could bring free time, widespread education, and improved social mobility. Big potential for changing the pseudo-feudal game if the majority doesn't have to be peasants.

And of course (depending on how these things work) it doesn't have to be zombies. Summoned monsters or animated objects could also work. Can you imagine how resentful a demon bound to farm would be?

[Nomadic]

And if you think only necromancers would use zombies, and only to fight, you'd be mistaken. Can you imagine the lower caste of agricultural workers replaced with mindless immortals?

Mindless zombies used for hard labor, especially in agriculture opens up some interesting thoughts. Perhaps there are people uneasy with the thought of zombies (there's bound to be some). The thought of undead hands touching or even being around your food might be appalling to some people even in a society that uses them regularly. Maybe there are people who only use living people in their farms. It's more expensive which drives the cost of certified zombie free produce up. Interesting things could come of this. People passing off zombie grown stuff as zombie free, thieves stealing the premium stuff, ideological arguments between those who only eat zombie free and those who think the zombie free people are stuck up sissies.

Also, if the zombies are a new thing they could be "stealing jobs." Or if they're old news they could bring free time, widespread education, and improved social mobility. Big potential for changing the pseudo-feudal game if the majority doesn't have to be peasants.

And of course (depending on how these things work) it doesn't have to be zombies. Summoned monsters or animated objects could also work. Can you imagine how resentful a demon bound to farm would be?

Yes plus with a caste beneath the peasantry which is potentially more adept at fighting you would see less conscription of peasants during war and more outright zombie on zombie wave tactics (which is all kinds of wicked sick). I also like the idea of bound demons. In part because a resentful bound demon breaking free of his controller and wrecking havoc would be a great setup for a game session.

[beejazz]

I just like the idea of a bound demon in overalls and a straw hat, really.