Wheel of Earth and Water: Brainstorming

[Rhamnousia]

This is the roughest of brainstormings I had for a martial arts-centered setting. I'll probably ad more onto it, but I wanted to know what your impressions of the basic idea were while I try to work out what angle to attack a more involved write-up should take.


The world is called the Wheel of Earth and Water, with one-hundred million islands and archipelago rising from the surface of a single vast ocean that stretches from horizon to horizon. That is the number poetically ascribed by the inhabitants; there are far too many to every count, as numerous as stars in the sky. The largest of the islands are not more than a few dozen miles wide, with the jealous sea swallowing up anything larger. They form a colorful mosaic that ranges from jungles and lagoons to rocky outcroppings, barren plains to rolling hills to towering mountains.


Everything in the Wheel is said to be made from the four elements, in varying proportions.

Air: Wit, Willpower, Courage and Communication. Inwards to the Mind and Self.
Earth:  Resilience, Practicality, Sensation and Physicality. Outwards to Flesh and the World.
Fire: Passion, Creativity, Leadership and Drive. Hot Blood and Emotion.
Water: Control, Grace, Intuition and Instinct. Cool Senses and Logic.


Spirits small and large pervade the fabric of the living world, the oldest and most powerful of them virtual gods and the object of widespread reverence.


Ethnically, the peoples of the Wheel resemble a mix of the South and Southeast Asian, Chinese, and Nipponese, as well as a slightly smaller proportion of Negrito, Arab, and Polynesian. Within these broad categories are countless smaller groups and tribes, some widespread, some limited to a single corner of a single island. I'm very intentionally pulling an Ursula le Guin and not including any Western European analogues, though I am considering a seaborne raider culture that resembles a hybrid of Vikings and Ottomans.


As nearly everyone at most a day's-travel from the coast, life revolves around the sea, which is viewed with a mix of reverence and fear. Ships are rarely more than light, single-masted vessel: anything larger risks offending the ocean.


No force has ever been to unite more than a handful of islands under a single banner, with the greatest of these petty empires controlling at most a dozen. Because it is next to impossible to assemble great numbers of soldiers, clashes between massed armies are unheard of. Instead, disputes are more often settled by formal contests between single duelists or small parties of combatants.


There is a strong tradition of martial arts in the Wheel, their study and practice considered to be one of the most worthy and honorable of pursuits. The number of different forms and styles, both armed and unarmed, are beyond counting. Some have become so popular that they are known everywhere, while others are taught by only a single, reclusive master. Rare is the island that does not have at least one temple, dojo, or ashram.


With so many schools and traditions, the wandering duelist is a ubiquitous sight in any corner of the Wheel. Some are mercenaries selling their talents, some seek enlightenment through the honing of their art, and others are simply driven by wanderlust and the desire for adventure. There is an established, unspoken code of honor among their kind that dictates things like fair combat and when one may kill their opponent.


Arms are grouped into eight broad categories: Swords, Staves, Spears, Polearms, Hammers, Flails, Daggers, and Thrown. Each class encompasses a diverse range of weapons and there is much debate between students of the different styles as to which is superior, though they are all considered equally honorable. Bows, however, are anathema: their use in combat against an unevenly-armed opponent is considered a grave breach of honor.

[Seraph]

I LOVE THIS.  MORE PLEASE.

I am thinking of some kickass Crouching Tiger, Hidden Pirates of the Caribbean stuff. 

Very interesting to see that there are a TON of very small places and, for lack of a better word, "kingdoms" which seems to provide both a cool, unified aesthetic, and a lot of possibilities for adventure/new things/not getting bored.

[Rhamnousia]

[ooc]These'll go up as I think of them, until I have a relatively-complete picture.[/ooc]

Magic in the Wheel is invariably subtle, revolving around the four elements of which everything in the world is comprised. Air magic channels the inner power of mind and soul and directs it outward, transcending physicality. Earth magic, on the other hand, draws upon the energy of the living world to empower the physical. Fire magic concerns the desires and emotions of the caster and those around him, while Water magic is perhaps the subtlest of all, sensing shifting changes. These are, of course, the vaguest of generalizations: a student of magic can accomplish many things with enough study and dedication.

Humans share the Wheel with several other races far older than they are.

Giants are towering beings, the largest of them tall enough to wade through the shallower channels between islands. They have the rough form of men but with bestial, monstrous faces: tusks, horns, burning eyes, black or red skin, etc. Despite such appearances, they are wise, honorable creatures, even if some are less benevolent than others.

Naga are serpents of immense size who dwell in the caves and catacombs that crisscross the islands, even extending below the sea floor. Some, particularly the rulers of their kind, possess multiple heads. They have a foul reputation for being scheming, cruel creatures, weaving conspiracies and striking at mankind seemingly without purpose.

Dragons are fickle, imperious creatures. Some are benevolent, some are not, but all demand to be treated with the respect afforded to the world's most noble beings. To anger one (which is sometimes terrifyingly-easy) is to invite destruction that can swallow entire islands. That said, they are equally-capable of showing incredible generosity to those who earn their respect in kind (which is a much more difficult task).

[Seraph]

[ooc]These'll go up as I think of them, until I have a relatively-complete picture.[/ooc]

Magic in the Wheel is invariably subtle, revolving around the four elements of which everything in the world is comprised. Air magic channels the inner power of mind and soul and directs it outward, transcending physicality. Earth magic, on the other hand, draws upon the energy of the living world to empower the physical. Fire magic concerns the desires and emotions of the caster and those around him, while Water magic is perhaps the subtlest of all, sensing shifting changes. These are, of course, the vaguest of generalizations: a student of magic can accomplish many things with enough study and dedication.

Humans share the Wheel with several other races far older than they are.

Giants are towering beings, the largest of them tall enough to wade through the shallower channels between islands. They have the rough form of men but with bestial, monstrous faces: tusks, horns, burning eyes, black or red skin, etc. Despite such appearances, they are wise, honorable creatures, even if some are less benevolent than others.

Naga are serpents of immense size who dwell in the caves and catacombs that crisscross the islands, even extending below the sea floor. Some, particularly the rulers of their kind, possess multiple heads. They have a foul reputation for being scheming, cruel creatures, weaving conspiracies and striking at mankind seemingly without purpose.

Dragons are fickle, imperious creatures. Some are benevolent, some are not, but all demand to be treated with the respect afforded to the world's most noble beings. To anger one (which is sometimes terrifyingly-easy) is to invite destruction that can swallow entire islands. That said, they are equally-capable of showing incredible generosity to those who earn their respect in kind (which is a much more difficult task).

I like the idea of playing up the Naga.  Fits well in the "Southeast Asian" part of your inspiration.

Are you thinking of dragons being more serpentine, a la Chinese and Japanese dragons, rather than the winged lizards of the West? 

[Rhamnousia]

I like the idea of playing up the Naga.  Fits well in the "Southeast Asian" part of your inspiration.

Are you thinking of dragons being more serpentine, a la Chinese and Japanese dragons, rather than the winged lizards of the West? 

Probably. Since there are so few true dragons (but quite a lot of smaller dragon-like monsters) each one has their own unique appearance and aesthetic. So while they'll all have long, serpentine bodies and five or six-fingered claws, it's entirely possible that one might have stubby wings or a more lizard-like head.

Glad you're digging it so far. Any other suggestions/additions you'd make?

[Seraph]

With the more eastern aesthetic in mind, I have a few thoughts.

You might want to forgo "gods" in the traditional sense, in favor of Kami, which are more like very local nature spirits.  It feels like since your magic system is already subtle, and based on naturally occurring "elements" that it might be good to stick to something smaller and less omnipotent with the gods.  I also get the impression that line between "natural" and "supernatural" would be a bit hazy. 

Maybe you power magic with "Chi" or "Ki." I am thinking that all characters might have SOME ki, but few would know how to increase their and control their ki to do anything useful.

With all that seafaring, you'll want some interesting hazards.  You can always go with pirates and royal navies and giant squids, but a unique hazard would be a benefit.  For instance, there was a 90s cartoon called Pirates of Dark Water where "Dark Water" referred to these black oozes that would drift across the sea attacking ships that got too close.  I suggest coming up with something special.

Oh, and about the dragons.  I believe in Asian art, dragons sometimes had 5 fingers, and sometimes only 3.  The 5-fingered dragons were the "Noble" dragons, while the 3 fingered ones were more the dragon equivalent to a "peasant" or "commoner."  Something to think about.

[Rhamnousia]

You might want to forgo "gods" in the traditional sense, in favor of Kami, which are more like very local nature spirits.  It feels like since your magic system is already subtle, and based on naturally occurring "elements" that it might be good to stick to something smaller and less omnipotent with the gods.  I also get the impression that line between "natural" and "supernatural" would be a bit hazy. 

Yeah, I was a bit vague about that. There aren't any "gods", at least not in the traditional western sense. Let me break it down for you like this: there are a near-infinite number of petty spirits in the Wheel, the more benevolent of which are often the subject of folk worship on individual islands, in return for minor boons and blessings. Even more hostile or mischievous spirits may be propitiated with gifts to mitigate the damage they cause. These are the sort of spirits people interact with as part of their daily lives. As you go up the scale, you have older, more powerful spirits, until you finally reach the spirits who created the Wheel. These are the "gods": the spirits that broadly embody the Sun, the Moon, the Ocean, Storms, Fire, etc. They are immensely powerful, but also far more impersonal, and definitely not omnipotent. You also have demons, which are those spirits that are universally hostile to humans.

And yes, the boundary between natural and supernatural is extremely thin. There isn't even a "spirit world": spirits are part of the Wheel, just usually in an intangible form, invisible to those without the power to see them...until they're not, of course. The older and more powerful ones tend to dwell in lonely places, away from human habitation.

Maybe you power magic with "Chi" or "Ki." I am thinking that all characters might have SOME ki, but few would know how to increase their and control their ki to do anything useful.

I'm avoiding using any specific terms for the same reason I'm using the four basic elements instead of the Chinese five: the setting is inspired by Asian mythology, but I want to keep it broadly and unspecifically pan-Asian. So while one character might call it chi, another might call it chakra. Or focus. Or whatever. Does that make sense?

With all that seafaring, you'll want some interesting hazards.  You can always go with pirates and royal navies and giant squids, but a unique hazard would be a benefit.  For instance, there was a 90s cartoon called Pirates of Dark Water where "Dark Water" referred to these black oozes that would drift across the sea attacking ships that got too close.  I suggest coming up with something special.

Definitely. I'm coming up with all kinds of sea monsters. There's an entire pantheon of ocean-spirits characters will have to avoid offending if they want to travel unmolested, not to mention corporeal threats, like sea serpents and pirate fleets. I want to avoid making that the focus, however, because the ocean isn't meant to be a place of overwhelming danger. It's dangerous, to be sure, but it's also the lifeblood of the islands. I'm aiming for Bollywood-meets-wuxia-adventure, not existential danger.

[Seraph]

Maybe you power magic with "Chi" or "Ki." I am thinking that all characters might have SOME ki, but few would know how to increase their and control their ki to do anything useful.

I'm avoiding using any specific terms for the same reason I'm using the four basic elements instead of the Chinese five: the setting is inspired by Asian mythology, but I want to keep it broadly and unspecifically pan-Asian. So while one character might call it chi, another might call it chakra. Or focus. Or whatever. Does that make sense?

With all that seafaring, you'll want some interesting hazards.  You can always go with pirates and royal navies and giant squids, but a unique hazard would be a benefit.  For instance, there was a 90s cartoon called Pirates of Dark Water where "Dark Water" referred to these black oozes that would drift across the sea attacking ships that got too close.  I suggest coming up with something special.

Definitely. I'm coming up with all kinds of sea monsters. There's an entire pantheon of ocean-spirits characters will have to avoid offending if they want to travel unmolested, not to mention corporeal threats, like sea serpents and pirate fleets. I want to avoid making that the focus, however, because the ocean isn't meant to be a place of overwhelming danger. It's dangerous, to be sure, but it's also the lifeblood of the islands. I'm aiming for Bollywood-meets-wuxia-adventure, not existential danger.

Well Chakras if I understand them correctly are more "locations" or "sources" of energy in the body than that energy itself.  "Prana" would probably work, though.

And sure, I can see not having there be threats to your life around every wave.

[Mason]

This is cool. I like your stuff because it is not based on traditional medieval western elements, ideas and stereotypes.

Couple questions/observations

Are the elements tied to both martial and magical qualities? Are these elements 'elder spirits' or other forces entirely?

What are the major martial arts schools/dojos and what styles do they prefer? Maybe 3-5 would be a good start.
 
As for martial styles, when people fight do they counter with specific styles? (i.e. my Leaping Frog style will  always defeat your River Dragon style)

Are some styles forbidden? Extinct? ie no longer in use/obsolete?

What about armor? Or are all fighters Jackie Chans and Jet Lees? I can imagine some Imperial Chinese regiments protect major island
kingdoms, ala Romance of the Three Kingdoms, or Hero (visuals)

I like that bows are excluded, though I would imagine it would be seen in limited use, if only for the historical asian flavor (Samurai were masters of the bow well before the swords) perhaps an assassins guild uses them (much to the disgust of respectable warriors); what about poisons, smoke bombs, fireworks, powders that go FLASH, and other Ninja-type weapons?

Is this a class based setting? Would we be able to pick something other than a kung-fu fighter or a mystical magic user tied to specific element(s)?

p.s. awesome that Pirates of Dark Water was even mentioned in this thread! I loved that show. Looking forward to more.

 

[Rhamnousia]

To Sarisa, I'll respond to the questions I currently have an answer to. The rest will be answered soon.

First of all, thank you. I try hard to break from convention; I hope it doesn't come across as forced.

Are the elements tied to both martial and magical qualities? Are these elements 'elder spirits' or other forces entirely?

They're more like broad, metaphysical concepts. In non-magical terms, it's both psychology and chemistry, if that makes any sense at all (and I totally understand if it doesn't). Hence why none of the magic deal with directly affecting the elements. Of course, there ARE spirits that embody the four physical elements, but they're not necessarily linked to the less-concrete concepts.

As for martial styles, when people fight do they counter with specific styles? (i.e. my Leaping Frog style will  always defeat your River Dragon style)

Like I said, they are a LOT of different styles, enough to make that sort of kung-fu arithmetic obsolete. Of course, a style focused on long-distance kicking is going to have an advantage against on that revolves around close-range body-blows, but be next-to-useless against a wrestler who specializes in throws and limb-locks. So yes, certain styles work better some styles and are vulnerable  to others, but no, there aren't many styles specifically intended to counter other ones. And the ones that are, well, they're woefully limited in utility if you find yourself facing someone who uses anything else.

What about armor? Or are all fighters Jackie Chans and Jet Lees? I can imagine some Imperial Chinese regiments protect major island
kingdoms, ala Romance of the Three Kingdoms, or Hero (visuals)

Yes, soldiers and guards do wear armor, but they mainly fight defensively or in rigid formation. Most martial artists are likely to go without much armor, which is encumbering, slows them down, and limits their flexibility: perhaps thick cloth or a mail shirt at most. The average foot soldier probably wears scale or lamellar, while the heaviest don layers of metal plate. The danger of armor is that with so many different styles, there is always a risk of encountering someone with a style that can tear a slower, less agile opponent to pieces. So, most travelers avoid it, unless their style of fighting is specifically enhanced by it.

Plus, it clashes thematically.

I like that bows are excluded, though I would imagine it would be seen in limited use, if only for the historical asian flavor (Samurai were masters of the bow well before the swords) perhaps an assassins guild uses them (much to the disgust of respectable warriors); what about poisons, smoke bombs, fireworks, powders that go FLASH, and other Ninja-type weapons?

People absolutely use bows; the stigma is attached to striking at an unprepared and unevenly-armed opponent with one, which carries the connotation of hunting your opponent like a beast instead of engaging him honorably as a man. Soldiers, who are more concerned with "victory at all costs" instead of "no victory without honor", make frequent use of them. The same holds true for those assassins who care more for coin than they do any semblance of honor, which is not a universal truth among their profession. It's also entirely seemly for two martial artists who have mastered the use of the bow to engage in a long-range duel, each constantly repositioning themselves, angling for the prefect shot.

Poisons are considered even more treacherous, but are frequently used by the pragmatic. The rest (smoke bombs, black eggs, flash powder, etc.) aren't considered inherently dishonorable, though the average fighter has little use for them.

This brings up an interesting point about how assassins fit into the whole notion of honorable combat. Murdering a noble in his sleep is considered righteous if he has done something to invite such a fate : by becoming a prince, a general, even an underworld kingpin, he is tacitly accepting that he is now a viable target for assassination and is expected to guard himself as such. It is also considered honorable if such a killing is done in the service of some greater goal or mission, and if every care is made to ensure the target's is the only life taken.

Is this a class based setting? Would we be able to pick something other than a kung-fu fighter or a mystical magic user tied to specific element(s)?

Dunno yet. I was envisioning all of the characters being in some manner fighters, but having skills that also lay outside combat. And I never intended martial arts and magic to necessarily be mutually-exclusive.

Do those answer your questions and/or raise any new ones?

[Rhamnousia]

Magical weapons, while hardly the norm, are not uncommon, especially in the hands of veteran or well-connected warriors. They are often ritualistically forged from special materials: jade, orichalcum, thokcha, panchaloha, shibuichi, etc. They may be engraved with mystically-significant runes or characters, or carry the blessing of a spirit. The most powerful may even have a spirit bound within them. The actual powers of these weapons are, like most magic in the Wheel, very subtle: blades that are light as silk, that can cut through stone like wax, that move with preternatural speed, weapons which block incoming blows seemingly of their own volition. Then you have weapons which can strike incorporeal foes like ghosts or spirits, that suck the blood from open wounds, that ring infernally when drawn...but these are, if anything, even rarer.

[Seraph]

Is this a class based setting? Would we be able to pick something other than a kung-fu fighter or a mystical magic user tied to specific element(s)?

Dunno yet. I was envisioning all of the characters being in some manner fighters, but having skills that also lay outside combat. And I never intended martial arts and magic to necessarily be mutually-exclusive.

Do those answer your questions and/or raise any new ones?

You might do best with a skill-based system, where magic and fighting are skills, rather than something like D&D then.  The advantage would be that it would allow players to customize how much emphasis they place on straight-forward "fighting," and how much on "magic." 

And in support of "martial arts and magic" not being mutually exclusive, a lot of anime has the fighters be the ones doing the magic.  Think Dragonball Z.  The fighters are the ones who know how to manipulate their energy so they can fly, sense each other, and of course blast each other to smithereens with a Kamehameha wave, or a Gallic Gun, or a Destructo Disc. Of course, the beams of energy are obviously too un-subtle for the feel you are providing, but something more like the Kaio Ken could be appropriate, boosting strength and speed at the cost of endurance. 

And in Crouching Tiger and some similar films, martial artists can run up walls, leap long distances, and glide down from heights without harms.  They can practically fly. 

[Rhamnousia]

I was actually thinking more Ruroni Kenshin and Samurai Champloo than Dragon Ball Z...

[Seraph]

I was actually thinking more Ruroni Kenshin and Samurai Champloo than Dragon Ball Z...

DBZ seemed to better fit the specific point I was making.  Also I am more familiar with it.  But yeah, Kenshin is great for this kind of thing.  (Can't comment on Samurai Champloo, having never watched it)

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Very cool aesthetics here, Superbright. You've got a setting I'd love playing in, were I still playing.

As Seraph says, maybe D&D is not the right system. Perhaps look at Exalted.