Conscientious Objection

[limetom]

This is a thread for those who, like me, feel discussion about 4E are otiose and do not better the image of our site.  Thusly, I present you with...

Pudding!

Carry on.

[CYMRO]

:wtf:

And how, exactly, does a discussion of an aspect of gaming (the inevitable release of another D&D edition) tarnish the image of a gaming site?
What better place to discuss it than a gaming site?  Should we move the discussion to espn.com?

[limetom]

Whenever I see a Fourth Edition thread, even if it is just a "What I'd want in 4E" kind of thing, I see a wasted opportunity for bettering what we already have.

People seem to miss the functionality of the d20 System, and say: "I want x in Fourth Edition!"  With the d20 System, you can have whatever x is in Third Edition  Some people have said in our discussion "I want a simpler grappling system in Fourth Edition."  Why wait?  Almost everyone here has made up a new mechanic of some sort or another, I'm sure its by no means beyond someone at the CBG.  Furthermore, saying "I want a simpler grappling system" does nothing to help designers.  Why is it complex?  Is something not explained well enough?  Are too many rolls involved?  Is it just the player wanting something more fantastic or realistic?  On these kinds of threads, people tend to forget to explain such things, and it will be of no help to a designer, who could potentially fix it in even just an errata or FAQ update.

Furthermore, going off of the lifespans of the previous editions, Third Edition should be around for over a decade in total.  That means Fourth Edition will be here in 2010ish at the earliest.  I susupect that with the Open Gaming Liscence and how they've been updating the Third Edition's rules, Fourth Edition won't be around until closer to 2015 or even 2020.  Why worry about something that is at the very least 4 years off?

And no one at Wizards has ever even mentioned that there will be a Fourth Edition, so it is in no way an inevitable thing.  Nothing is ever certain.  Now I know there is going to be some smart ass comment about this, but you know what, I really don't care.  You cannot say that Fourth Edition is a certain thing, plain and simple.

No one is twisting your arm to not mess around with Third Edition, nor will they twist your arm to buy Fourth Edition if or when it comes out.  I just see people complaining or asking for stuff in something that isn't going to come about for at the very least 4 years, rather than actually making it happen.

Personally, it just seems a little dumb to me.  You don't see people here saying, "I want a new magic system for my setting, but you know what, I'll just say 'I'd like a new magic system for my setting', and just wait for someone to hand one to me."  People here go out and make a new magic system for their setting.  Hell, I'm pretty sure we have nearly as many magic systems here as we have campaigns.

I mean the following in the best possible way, though it may sound otherwise: I doubt what we say here will ever be looked at by Wizards whenever they decide to develop Foruth Edition.  I doubt most of the stuff posted about Fourth Edition posted on Wizards' message boards will be looked at.  They will heed feedback given to them by playtesters.  They will heed feedback given to them by the RPGA.  They will heed serious feedback they get through things such as Sage Advice and Ask Wizards.  They will go off the work done by their R&D department.

It seems we pride ourselves on getting things done and doing our own things here.  I see a Fourth Edition discussion as setting out a to-do list that will be inherently left alone, because we feel it is either beyond us or we don't want to put forth the effort.  Why do such a thing?  If you want something done, then do it.  No one's holding you back, and I'm sure everyone here could help you make what you are doing better.

I say don't discuss it at all.  Ignore it.  ESPN.com could be a better place for it for all I care.

Do today what you would put of for someone else to do tomorrow.

[CYMRO]

And no one at Wizards has ever even mentioned that there will be a Fourth Edition, so it is in no way an inevitable thing.

Yes, they have.  More than one has said it is going to happen.  Eventually.  They just refuse to be pinned down about when.  Or about possible changes.

I mean the following in the best possible way, though it may sound otherwise: I doubt what we say here will ever be looked at by Wizards whenever they decide to develop Foruth Edition.

No one here said they would.  
What I posted in the other thread, and in other discussions, was not meant to be aimed at WOTC, it was meant to be a discussion among members here.  I do not care what WOTC thinks about my opinion.

It seems we pride ourselves on getting things done and doing our own things here. I see a Fourth Edition discussion as setting out a to-do list that will be inherently left alone, because we feel it is either beyond us or we don't want to put forth the effort. Why do such a thing? If you want something done, then do it. No one's holding you back, and I'm sure everyone here could help you make what you are doing better.

It was a discussion not about doing, but about what people think about it.  Why do it?  Because such speculation about gaming and the future of the flagship of the rpg industry, gives us insight into the hows and whys of gaming.  
This has nothing to do with my own projects, it has to do with the open exchange of opinions.  The whole point of the discussion seems to have gone over your head.
Try reading the opening post of my 4E thread again.

I say don't discuss it at all.

Well, since you have appointed yourself our censor, are there any other topics we should not discuss?  

Not that I would listen, but feel free to keep telling us what we should, or should not, discuss.  It is your right, just as it is the right of the rest of us to talk up 4E, 5E, and any other edition, past or future, that we want to.

[limetom]

CYMRO, you are right.  This whole thing did go over my head, and I didn't read what the initial post on your thread was when I was writing this.  It is only common courtesy to do so when posting in the same thread, after all.  It is quite obvious that we are discussing the same matter.  It is quite clear that when we talk about Fourth Edition, we are talking about buying or not buying it at some point in the future, the future of Wizards of the Coast, and whether or not we have left Dungeons and Dragons entirely.  It is quite clear that such a discussion would never involve what we would like to see in it, nor the fact that when we talk about Fourth Edition, we are actually talking about the "hows and whys" of gaming, rather than Fourth Edition in any way, shape, or form..

It is quite evident that when I make a mistake of some sort, whether it be in my command of the written English language on the Internet, the place where grammar and spelling are always taken to the utmost of levels, or in factual matters that are quite well known by a majority of people, the entire value of any argument that I put forth becomes nil.  It does not matter that I am human in this case, and may err.  It also does not matter that I speak two other languages, and that sometimes when working with one, it can affect work in another, especially because working in a foreign language should never affect my native language.  Such a thing has never happened, and living in such a place as Honolulu, I do not see the interactions of any languages aside from my native one on a regular basis.  I do not ride the bus every day and sit next to people speaking in Japanese, several dialects of Chinese, Maori, Spanish, Hawaiian, and especially not something as ridiculous as the creole language of Hawaiian Pidgin.  Furthermore, my real life, including such petty things as college, has no bearing on my access to, concentration on, and dedication towards gaming and a website, which should obviously be at the top of my priorities.

Furthermore, I am the censor of the Campaign Builder's Guild.  I neither hold nor want powers of administration or powers of moderation, but I alone deem what we can and cannot discuss.  I do not state my opinion on such a matters, I quite simply state the law in such matters.  None are free to disagree with me in such a matter.  It would be even more outrageous for them to state such an objection in a civil manner, and much more preferable that their first conclusion be straight to a cry of fascism on my part, because, after all, I obviously do not value the opinions of anyone other than myself and feel that individualism of any sort, aside from my own, of course, is utterly wrong and incompatible with my vision of the Campaign Builder's Guild.  Furthermore, I obviously read through every single post on this site, and I quite clearly have a blacklist of everything I find objectionable, and at some point in the near future, I shall cleanse the site of such material with my self-evident access to and want of powers of administration and moderation.

I quite clearly reject any speculation whatsoever, especially if it has already proven to be very constructive in other locales.  I especially reject any speculation coming from those people who disagree with me or who have disagreed with me in the past, because I hold grudges and am a generally bitter and spiteful person.  I also

Obviously, the Irish motto found in my signature, "Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad", or, "A light heart lives the longest" is something I would rather spit on than try to live, because I find that caring too much about something I cannot change is far better than changing what things I can and living with the rest.

Before you respond, I suggest you chill out, realize that this is satire of the utmost ridiculous nature, and figure out that I don't care, and that you probably should care so much either.  You see, ordinarily I try to be much more civil than normally required, and I usually shrug stuff off when it comes.  Sometimes I run stuff like this by other people first to make sure I'm not saying anything too objectionable.  But eventually, everybody, whether it is a good thing or not, has to deal with their problems in one way or another.

I have had horrible writer's block since I moved to Hawaii, and I feel pretty bad that I haven't been able to contribute any large amount of work to the Campaign Builder's Guild, and to dealI am not even sure I can keep running a PbP game for the 5 players who are quite interested in it.  I am seriously considering taking a break from the Campaign Builder's Guild, and the fact that I get no real sense of my presence and opinions being wanted by you is not really helping me decide to stay.  Though I doubt you will actually have any reason to believe me when I say this after reading this post, I have no hard feelings towards you, and I am sure there is some reason why I cannot seem to do anything right for you.  Or maybe I am truly just plain wrong.

Respond in whatever way you see fit.  I'm done with this.

[SA]

[comment deleted, after I realized I didn't want to get caught up in this nonsense]

[Elven Doritos]

Hmm. Thread's getting locked now, I guess.

I would simply like to remind all parties to respect one another's opinions, and to heed the following advice:

Cuz, yanno. We're not already super-busy.[/size]

-ElDo