Labyrinth fans, rejoice!

[SDragon]

"oh, and Hoggle, if you ever kiss the girl, I shall make you a prince."
"A... Prince, sir?"
"The prince of Eternal Stench!"

-Jareth and Hoggle, The Labyrinth

Bog of Eternal Stench

 Will Save DC 20 or be nauseated when within 50ft. of bog terrain; Reflex Save DC 30 or be contaminated when in bog terrain.


Contamination

If a character fails their reflex save for any round while in bog terrain, they become contaminated. A contaminated character takes a -10 to Hide and Move Silently skill checks, and can't apply their CHA bonus to any skill check.

Also, any character within 25ft. of a contaminated character must make a Will Save at DC 25 or be nauseated for 1d6 rounds. Each time a character becomes nauseated in this manner in a single day, they gain an accumulative -1 for the number of rounds affected (IE: First time the character is nauseated for 1d6 rounds. Second time, for 1d6-1 rounds, third time 1d6-2 rounds, etc.), as they become accustomed to the stench. The duration of this effect can never be less then 1 round.

A character may be cured of Contamination with Remove Disease, however all of the spell's energy must be devoted toward the Contamination. Other diseases present will not be cured.

Possible Ideas[/b]

* The Cleaners
* Goblin battle Construct

[Poseptune]

That is funny. Is there anyway of cleaning the stentch off? Is it stronger that prestidigitation? In a world with traveling mages, if any of their supplies are in such a bog, they would have at least tried to find a way to clean it off.

[SDragon]

Yea, I noticed the code thing right after I posted that.


I'm not sure yet whether or not it will be permanent. On the one hand, it was supposedly permanent in the movie, but on the other hand, that seems like it might be quite a bit to hand to PCs.


And yes, it's much stronger then Prestidigitation. It isn't intended to be just a mere nuisance.

[Tangential]

Although I applaud the effort and giggled upon seeing it, do you really think there was anything in the bogs flavour to suggest such high saves?

[SDragon]

I'm sketchy on the exact DCs, but I think they should be pretty high. Hoggle's description of it doesn't exactly make it sound like a cakewalk, with phrases like "so much as touch it", and "[to stink] is enough!".

The only thing to even suggest lower DCs for the Will Saves, is the fact that Sir Dydamus wasn't affected by the smell. That said, he seemed to have a fairly high WIS (If low INT), and I'd suspect him as a paladin of sorts. Assuming he had Iron Will, I'd think his Will Save was higher then the rest of the party. (I have no intentions of statting out the characters, so these are all just speculation)

Maybe if I represented "immunity" to the smell by giving a Will bonus for each time nauseated, instead of a reduced duration?

[SDragon]

Changed the DC's, as well as the penalty for contaminated characters. Old stuff, I know, but I figured I'd bring it back up.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Ironically I just bought that movie on DVD the other day. I haven't seen it, and was thinking of watching it soon.

[SDragon]

Interesting...

When you're done, you'll have to comment on my portrayal of the Bog.

[SA]

I assume that by "when in bog terrain" you mean "within the bog itself"?  I like the Will save, but I don't think contamination should have such a high DC, the logic being: if you touch the bog there's no way around it - you're stunk; but it's as easy to avoid the bog in the first place as any other kind of bog.  Therefore: automatic fail when in contact with the bog, and a significantly more lenient save (as low as 15) when running along them nifty boulders Ludo summoned, and such.

And I looove that movie.  How about stats for the big goblin-powered axe knight?

[SDragon]

I assume that by "when in bog terrain" you mean "within the bog itself"?  I like the Will save, but I don't think contamination should have such a high DC, the logic being: if you touch the bog there's no way around it - you're stunk; but it's as easy to avoid the bog in the first place as any other kind of bog.  Therefore: automatic fail when in contact with the bog, and a significantly more lenient save (as low as 15) when running along them nifty boulders Ludo summoned, and such.

And I looove that movie.  How about stats for the big goblin-powered axe knight?

I've never really been a big fan of automatic fails in crunch, though. Too fiat-y. What I mean by "when in bog terrain" is when you're actually touching the bog itself. That's easy enough to avoid if you're just traveling through, like in the movie, but what if you're in combat? Imagine being Bull Rushed into a square of bog terrain. You'd need to be exceptionally fast on your feet to avoid getting the smelly stuff on you, hence the high reflex save.

I think trying to design that goblin guard construct thing might be fun, but I have no guarantees on how it might come out...

[Matt Larkin (author)]

So I watched the movie last night. It was interesting.

I think your quotation is mistaken.
Jareth says, "If she ever kisses you..."

I'm not sure I understand why there is a Reflex save if you've already been pushed into the much. I would think a Balance check to avoid falling in or a standard resist to a bull rush are sufficient. Besides, DC 40 means effectively most characters only have a 5% chance of escaping. That's generally poor design.

I believe nasuated is too strong a condition, at least if you're going to have it apply for more than one round. The characters were still moving, climbing, jumping, and even fighting after they got used to the smell.

Also, DC 25 is way too high. Your average person does not have a strong save (one always has to assume a strong save is an advantage, not the norm), and the average person also does not have a wisdom bonus.

Meaning the average 20th level character would need a 19 to be to function within the bog, baring magical aid.

I see maybe -10 to hide (though it's pushing it since hide is currently just versus sight, not other senses), but why would smelling bad make you noisier? Rather than these penalties, maybe you should say anyone that can smell becomes aware of your presence when you are within 30 feet, or something like blindsense even (or say everyone has Scent versus you is probably best).

Anyone within 25 feet is nasuated (basically automatically with that DC)? That sounds almost like an advantage, especially if we can assume you're no longer affected (and if you are, you may as well retire the character, because if you affect yourself with that permanently, your useless).

Can't apply Cha bonus. The problem with this is it only penalizes those with a Cha bonus, and the penalty is higher the higher your bonus is. It should be more like a flat -4 penalty. (also stinking shouldn't necessarily decrease how intimidating a Balor is, for example, but as written, he's losing +8 off intimidate).

Really, I think things that work for books/movies don't always translate well to gaming, particularly games like D&D. At the very least, a permanent penalty never works well for PCs (maybe allow remove curse?).

[SDragon]

A balance check does seem like a better option, I don't know why I didn't think of it. Should I maybe make all DCs at 20?

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Well, I think the Reflex save is probably superfluous, unless you're in the habit of giving anyone bull rushed into something dangerous an additional save to resist it (if they get pushed off a cliff or into lava?).

As for the save against the stench, I'd use the troglodyte "Stench" attack as a basis, which is DC 13 for a CR 1 monster. We can assume Sarah is a first level non-adventurer, or maybe second level by that point. Anyway, the bog was a major challenge, so it should be CR 3-5. So I'd go with a Fort save of 15 or 16.

This means the average person will fail the save (and thus be sickened, which is better than nasuated) most of the time (their average roll should be an 11, or a 12 if 3rd level).

I assume traversing the terrain would require the standard Balance check for difficult terrain (DC 10, maybe +2 for slippery). I.e., anyone without a Dex penalty can take 10 and do it outside combat, but when running or in combat, it gets hard to pull it off every round. If you want, you could even add another +2 DC for obstructed, but since the obstructions are actually what are allowing them to cross, I wouldn't.

Like most environmental challenges in 3.X, the bog is a good challenge for low-level characters. High level characters have so many options, magical, and otherwise, to cross that trying to challenge them with a bog is more effort than it's worth.

But that's only my opinion; you may find your group doesn't mind the high DCs.

[Tybalt]

Hm, I think that it would be fun to design a number of the creatures/constructs in this setting. Like the cleaners!

[SDragon]

Changed the DCS yet again, and added the ideas brought up. The DCs are still pretty high, but I think this is the lowest they'll go.