Phaedorás: Book of Kyobazu <<Discussion>>

[Raelifin]

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[sparkletwist]

While one ship invents a way to describe being a ____, another decides to extend verb form.

That would suggest to me that the community is rather fragmented, and there will be multiple dialects each with their own way of expressing a similar concept. These dialects could very well be mutually intelligible enough to get the basic idea of what the other party is saying, but they'd still each have their unique flavor and their own quirks, and not everything could be understood, due to having different origins of different expressions.

However, if the community is more tightly-knit than that, I don't see how all of these different expressions would arise in the first place. Wouldn't they simply use the standard form?

Sorry for all the picky questions, I don't know how deep you want to get into this stuff.

I do like the badge, though. :D

[Raelifin]

Sorry for being confusing. I'm aiming for something in between a fragmented language and a centralized language. And yes, that's not as easy to grasp. Consider if a people who spoke a single tongue went away for a year, intermingled and diverged again. (This is more extreme than the totwimi, but a better example) During that year, each group of people would naturally develop speech patterns, phrases and possibly words as need arises. These would be small changes, and probably too subtle to pick up on easily. After intermingling, changes would spread and be stomped out depending on which groups had which people. The language would remain fairly uniform, but it's development would be spread out among many different groups, and thus be non-uniform. This is what I mean by variation in vocabulary and grammar. Yes, it's wonky and I get into some very vague models of the development of culture, but as I understand it, a society composed of various groups which maintain semi-frequent contact will create a mildly diverse set of ideas (including language) without becoming fragmented.

Shoot my ideas down if necessary, but be sure to provide a strong counter-argument. :)

[sparkletwist]

I don't mean to "shoot down" your ideas, simply to offer a different perspective. :)

Typically, in a situation like that, most people will instead use two languages-- a local language, used by their village/tribe/community and understood by few others, and a more widespread "trade language," used by the larger group. I'm reminded of networks of villages in, say, Africa or India, where there is a good deal of linguistic diversity, and some means of communication that can be used by everyone in the large community is thus essential.

If the contact only happens a few times a year, or is otherwise irregular, and not with any consistent group of people, there may not be enough input for it to have the permanent, altering effect on the local languages to keep them unified enough as to be considered one single language. The people would likely speak to the large group in a manner in which they'll be understood, but then go back to using their much more familiar expressions with their own group. In fact, if there is a strong sense of community within the smaller groups, they will likely attempt to keep their linguistic quirks intact in order to preserve their unique identity in the larger society.

To be completely realistic, before the advent of mass communication, there was pretty much no concept of a "national language" in most places. Even the Roman Empire's Latin became very fragmented after a while, leading to languages as diverse as Spanish, French, and Romanian.

[Raelifin]

Of course. I didn't mean to imply that shooting them down was bad. (Urk, I hate the lack of emotion on the internet, it's so easy to get the wrong impression...)

Well, that's actually pretty convincing. I'll go half-way and say that there's enough contact between groups to produce strong variation between ships, but individuals can understand one-another easily enough to prevent any major problems. Morimikan, then, should be taken as a "standard" from which individual totwimi speakers deviate slightly, at GM's (or writer's) whim.

Thanks for changing my mind,
 - Rael

PS: I'm going to be on vacation for the next three weeks. This will no-doubt mean (as it has every single time I've gone on a vacation) that my creativity will double and I am likely to write a lot more. However, I will probably have less time to answer questions on this thread. Just fyi.

[Tybalt]

Wow, there's so much to respond to that I don't really know where to start. If you don't mind I'll make a few general remarks.

First of all I generally like the fact that you've created a fantasy culture based on the Orient that is not just another version of "Oriental Adventures". It has its own unique flavour to it, entirely based on a mythology you have created where the stories are vivid and imaginative. It evokes the sense of an age of exploration, piracy and war along with beauty and mystery.

Second: I really like your races. There are not many settings where I'm interested in the exotic types of humanoids presented--usually they come across as humans in funny suits or different versions of already existing fantasy creatures. Yours come across instead as products of your unique oriental environment. I particularly like the Totwimi and the Niyam--they are vividly DIFFERENT and the descriptions of the former's culture, practices in war, religion and beliefs about the soul are so excellently thorough that while details would be appreciated by a GM there is really a good solid basis for dealing with them in a campaign right there.

Also keep up the good work on your mythology. I'm quite enjoying seeing how it unfolds and explains what spiritually drives this world of yours.

[Raelifin]

[quote Tybalt]Wow, there's so much to respond to that I don't really know where to start. If you don't mind I'll make a few general remarks.[/quote]First of all I generally like the fact that you've created a fantasy culture based on the Orient that is not just another version of "Oriental Adventures". It has its own unique flavour to it, entirely based on a mythology you have created where the stories are vivid and imaginative. It evokes the sense of an age of exploration, piracy and war along with beauty and mystery.[/quote]Second: I really like your races. There are not many settings where I'm interested in the exotic types of humanoids presented--usually they come across as humans in funny suits or different versions of already existing fantasy creatures. Yours come across instead as products of your unique oriental environment. I particularly like the Totwimi and the Niyam--they are vividly DIFFERENT and the descriptions of the former's culture, practices in war, religion and beliefs about the soul are so excellently thorough that while details would be appreciated by a GM there is really a good solid basis for dealing with them in a campaign right there.[/quote]Also keep up the good work on your mythology. I'm quite enjoying seeing how it unfolds and explains what spiritually drives this world of yours.[/quote]http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1164939939_9_FT22019_happy.png[/img]

[Tybalt]

And so in stirring prose we hear the tale of antagonism between the Niyam and the Totwimi--and a fine stirring and myth sounding tale it is. Keep up the good work.

There seems btw to be a rather ancestral/tribal feel to this conflict--not the sense of 'we must conquer them' but rather 'they are our enemies'. Is that what you meant to convey?

[Raelifin]

There seems btw to be a rather ancestral/tribal feel to this conflict--not the sense of 'we must conquer them' but rather 'they are our enemies'. Is that what you meant to convey?

Oh, thank you. This is very helpful. I certainly didn't mean 'we must conquer them', for the niyam have no wish to rule over the totwimi, but rather than a tribal feel (though I keep using the word tribe, and goodness knows, this is a tribal world) I was going for more of a religious zealotry or a 'they are infidels' meaning. I'll go and change some of the language to assist.

 - Raelifin

[Stargate525]

Review time!

I like how you've chucked out races, and replaced them with a single entity that has great variation. you've given us 35 new 'races' to play with. Looks like fun. I'm curious as to whether the magic change is purely fluff, or has significance in the crunch as well. I'm betting I'll find out later. What are the 'marks?'

The Totwimi are described as having 'leaf-shaped' ears. What kind of leaf? Maple? I like how you've tied them to the sea, but if they are so easily mutatable, you would think that they would have developed rubbery skin, amphibian gills, and fins instead of fur and tails. Do the Totwimi suffer many child casualties, considering they're all on the open seas?

Alright, the Animus is also a patron deity, makes sense. Small biological note, it's impossible for eyes to actually glow in the dark, else they would blind themselves. But I don't really care about that, and I love your description of the Niyam. Reminds me of the Morlocks.

I like your creation myths. It sounds like you borrowed from the Hawaiian and Polynesian myths. It's a nice change from the normal, they don't get enough love.

I skimmed your languages section. I personally don't enjoy reading that sort of thing, but kudos to you for developing the entire structure.

[Raelifin]

I like how you've chucked out races, and replaced them with a single entity that has great variation. you've given us 35 new 'races' to play with. Looks like fun. I'm curious as to whether the magic change is purely fluff, or has significance in the crunch as well. I'm betting I'll find out later. What are the 'marks?'

The Totwimi are described as having 'leaf-shaped' ears. What kind of leaf? Maple? I like how you've tied them to the sea, but if they are so easily mutatable, you would think that they would have developed rubbery skin, amphibian gills, and fins instead of fur and tails. Do the Totwimi suffer many child casualties, considering they're all on the open seas?[/quote]. I'd estimate that around one-in-three children die before their  sixth birthday, and that 40% die (of non-homicide) before adulthood.

[quote Stargate]Alright, the Animus is also a patron deity, makes sense. Small biological note, it's impossible for eyes to actually glow in the dark, else they would blind themselves. But I don't really care about that, and I love your description of the Niyam. Reminds me of the Morlocks.[/quote] Haha, you apparently haven't read about Uyamim then (for the light of the goddess belongs to no law but her own). That's a useful comment, though, as the low-magic tone is paying off. Thanks for the compliment and thank you very much for the review! I know that the immensity of the setting can be intimidating.

 - Raelifin

[Raelifin]

I'm kind of curious as to whether anyone has actually read all of the setting. It's over 12 thousand words, I think, so it's no easy read.[spoiler Nothing Important]Phaedorás: The Book of Kyobazu
Focus: Totwimi
Secondary Cultures: Uyamim Niyam, Jachkamital

Phaedorás: The Book of Ubau
Focus: Ushaix
Secondary Cultures: Dagarax, Naijix

Phaedorás: The Book of Phsae
Focus: Phsaedonai
Secondary Cultures: None

Phaedorás: The Book of Vuu
Focus: Vuu
Secondary Cultures: None

Phaedorás: The Book of Ixaz
Focus: Tch'Zizari
Secondary Cultures: Kitchik, Yitchri

Phaedorás: The Book of Ein Kala
Focus: Eagles
Secondary Cultures: Crows, Birds, Vultures, Morahom

Phaedorás: The Book of Marlurd
Focus: Ukranukus (with umlauts)
Secondary Cultures: Dagarax

Phaedorás: The Book of Minaya
Focus: Minayans
Secondary Cultures: Foaleen

Phaedorás: The Book of Lun
Focus: Foaleen
Secondary Cultures: Birds, Nimunbella, Lethir

Phaedorás: The Book of Hosku Taban
Focus: Ihhaerah
Secondary Cultures: Foaleen, Niyam

Phaedorás: The Book of Ak-Abok
Focus: Pokobru
Secondary Cultures: Jamino

Phaedorás: The Book of Shienaii
Focus: Shienaii
Secondary Cultures: Tatchik, Vultures[/spoiler]

[Tybalt]

I've nearly read all of it, have the entries you did most recently to go.

I have to say that I was stunned almost to see someone do a non-pc role of the sexes in a game for a people that are actually one of the main peoples of the campaign world. It is very realistic within the context. The Niyam concern with holiness as a living part of their culture is made very clear here.

One of the things I always want to see in a campaign world but rarely do are ideas about education, food and drink, day to day commerce. You seem to be putting that together nicely. One thing that probably helps is you are focusing intensely on two particular cultures to start with.

[Raelifin]

Yay! That's good. I get doubtful about my work sometimes.

[sparkletwist]

Just when I thought I'd managed to read most of it, you had go and add a bunch more! ;)