Thoughts on Theme Wars

[Kindling]

While I was around when the Theme Wars were occurring, I didn't really pay much more than passing attention to them at the time. However, I have just read the Wiki article on them, and it brought up two thoughts...

Firstly, what is my setting? It doesn't seem to fall neatly into any of the categories. The closest I can think would be that it is a mixture of Ethocentric (the latter meaning, where intent is irrelevant) and BlindSet. My reasoning being that I built it, and still am building it, without any particular intentions other than "ooh, this is cool, I'll include some of this" and yet it has still ended up having something of an ethos, albeit a vague one.

The second question is slightly more complex. SinkSet. It's basically an insult, right? But surely it's possible, with great skill and perseverance to create a SinkSet world which overcomes all the inherent flaws, or at least embraces them in such a way that they become "traits" rather than "flaws?"

If you had to create a SinkSet world, how would you go about it? How would you attempt to preserve consistency and internal realism?

[beejazz]

If you want to get a good idea of the theme wars argument, I suggest you dig up the original thread. I'm not entirely happy with the wiki... the jargon it produced is a little dense and somehow doesn't strike me as being useful.

If you want an example of "SinkSet" that works... I'm tempted to say "try D&D" but that would be slightly inaccurate. RIFTS, though, and any number of superhero settings might count.

I'm currently of the opinion that in a campaign setting, the only themes you need to take into account are "The players need something to do." and anything that stems more or less directly from that. Creation myths are a good example of a bad place to start, though I know I'm going to get flamed to hell for saying it.

[Kindling]

Actually I couldn't agree more about creation myths... It always puts me off a setting when the first thing I see is a creation myth, Lol.

[Lmns Crn]

Creation myths are a good example of a bad place to start, though I know I'm going to get flamed to hell for saying it.

If you are, it won't be from me.

Why is this the only style of writing where people feel compelled to start chronologically, anyway? If you're describing a friend of yours to me, do you start by telling me about how he was born?

[Ishmayl-Retired]

Hey Beeblebrox, I don't remember who exactly wrote up the wiki article on Theme Wars, but it's definitely not a set-in-stone page.  Maybe you and some others who know the Themes very well could really update that article and give it a bit more flair. :)

[beejazz]

Hey Beeblebrox, I don't remember who exactly wrote up the wiki article on Theme Wars, but it's definitely not a set-in-stone page.  Maybe you and some others who know the Themes very well could really update that article and give it a bit more flair. :)

I am teh wikinewb, but I'll look back into it when I get home tonight. Maybe we could discuss the specific changes here before we go about rewriting stuff.

[Lmns Crn]

I am teh wikinewb, but I'll look back into it when I get home tonight. Maybe we could discuss the specific changes here before we go about rewriting stuff.

Wiki editing is surprisingly easy and forgiving. Mainly, you just keep typing and things work out.

Every wiki page has its own corresponding "talk page", which is useful for continuing discussion about the contents of the page upon which it comments. So, we could discuss specific changes on the talk page, before, during, and after rewriting stuff. :)

[beejazz]

Wiki editing is surprisingly easy and forgiving. Mainly, you just keep typing and things work out.

Every wiki page has its own corresponding "talk page", which is useful for continuing discussion about the contents of the page upon which it comments. So, we could discuss specific changes on the talk page, before, during, and after rewriting stuff. :)

Good to know.

EDIT: Talk page started sort of. I've thrown out a few ideas.

[Ishmayl-Retired]

I have continued your discussion on the wiki page, and also added some loose instructions to help keep discussion organized.  

[LordVreeg]

Creation myths are a good example of a bad place to start, though I know I'm going to get flamed to hell for saying it.

If you are, it won't be from me.

Why is this the only style of writing where people feel compelled to start chronologically, anyway? If you're describing a friend of yours to me, do you start by telling me about how he was born?

Intersting comment.
It also makes total sense, even in a literary perspective.  Even the ancient greeks knew, starting things 'In Medias res' gets people swept away in your stuff.
Except it is not the only style that tends to this formula.
Too many of us (and I am guilty myself, often) take on a biblical perspective and start with, "In the Beginning...".  I think that is part of the tendency, that creators want to pen their own bible (or more likely, our Silmarillion).

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I think the issue here, is one tells the story in medias res. One doesn't write the story that way (using the write in the sense of "develop," not physically write). As a world designer, I usually start In the Beginning because it influences everything that follows. And from there I do history from beginning to end. 'Cause that shapes the modern world.

Actually, the first thing I'm likely to work on, and the first thing I'd probably present to readers of the setting, is cosmology (meaning the fundamental laws of your world, not just the organization of the heavens). Whether I would present the creation story after that or later would depend on the setting and how important it was (this is, of course, if presenting it other world developers for critiques; I don't present it to players or readers at all except discovered through the game).

[beejazz]

Really, I'm of the opinion that you work how you work. The implication that there is one right way to put something together is how the whole conversation got messy to begin with.

In play, though, I tend to save creation myths for much, much later. Mainly because most people didn't see creation happen. Now, local myths and religions and stuff might have a thing or two to say, but the "truth" is something you'd have to go and ask an aboleth for if you wanted it.

And likewise, when sharing a setting with others, the first thing they're going to want to see (or that I'm going to want to see) is the setting people are going to play in. So for me it's better to say "It's a world at war." or "You're just trying to survive in a post apocalyptic setting." or "It's the age of exploration." Gawd, I'm coming off so ethocentric allasudden. But yeah, first thing people want to hear is the stuff that gets their appetite to game up.