Orden's Mysteries

[Túrin]

I've ported my campaign setting Orden's Mysteries to the Hosting area, and while I'm far from satisfied with how it looks as of yet, I'm putting it up for review. Please come and take a look! If you feel so inclined, please leave your thoughts, suggestions, flames (really, I'd love to hear them), ideas, donations, love letters or whatever here in this thread, or send me an email at turinthemormegil@gmail.com.

Of course, you can still take a look at my WotC forum thread and leave comments there, if you prefer. I will try to update both simultaneously whenever I update.

Thanks a lot for your time!
:detect: Túrin

[Soup Nazi]

I'm in the middle of a long and thorough review, that I hope to post within the next couple days. Work has been kicking my rear end, but I haven't forgotten.

-Nasty-

[Saxon Douglass]

I've only skimmed over it, but I can safley say that I love the feel of the world (mysterious sums it up nicley).

I'm not sure on insanity rules for Sorcerors though. I'll have to see that in action before I can comment, but I personally hated the implementation found in UA.

[Epic Meepo]

Quick question, and forgive me if it's answered somewhere:

What does a felion look like?  I read through the text of new race on the CBG hosting area, but I must have missed the physical description of the race if it was in there.

[Túrin]

I think this came up in the WotC-thread as well. No worries though. Rouhgly speaking, felion look Norse (blond hair, blue eyes) and are slightly longer and thinner than humans. Xeph look oriental(-ish).
Túrin

[Soup Nazi]

Alright I'll kick off the setting of the week with a discussion on the religions of Orden's Mysteries.

The basic premise of the religions is fundimentally sound, and interesting. We've basically got a pantheon for each major race in the setting, although humans have three pantheons (appropriate considering their greater numbers), and the xeph (nice choice by the way) have their conceptual religion known as the Madja. The pantheons themselves are fairly standard, and only a handful of dieties jumped out at me as really unique. That doesn't mean the pantheons are lacking or drab; on the contrary it reminds me of Greyhawk where there were numerous gods, each with their own role, and pantheons of Orden seem quite complete and cover all the basics.

The part of the religions that really grabbed me however were the churches. Essentially the churches are groups of synergistic ideals and portfolios grouped together. Each church has a few patron deities aligned together and worshipped as a group. I love the concept! A single deity often feels like a shallow one dimensional patron, that really restricts their followers to a select few particularly devoted extremists. The churches however have their own detailed dogmas, the combined domains of multiple deities, and room for a variety of different people to find something they can empathise with philosophically.

I'll post about individual churches and deities soon. For now I just want to say bravo on the concept of the churches. You have made religion and gods focal to the setting without resorting to a Foregotten Realms-like level of divine intervention. You have found a way to make churches feel more realistic without abandoning the pantheonic approach so central to core D&D. Well done.

[Soup Nazi]

While the thread on WotC has more churches, the thread here at CBG has only two. For the time being I will consider these two churches as "complete" in the sense that they have much more detail, and a firmly established history, structure, and role in society.

The first is the Morvindihc Church. The doctrines of the church are particularly knightly and emphasise honorable combat, glory, and polite romanticised chivalry, particularly towards women. This reminds in many ways of the knight in shining armor, and fits the setting quite well. It could be compared to the knights of the round table or the crusaders depending upon how you look at it. They seem equally capable of piety and benevolence, as they are of zealous self-righteousness which is fitting, because of the alignment ambiguity of the world of Orden.

The history is fairly short and centered around the legendary hero Cordin. The best part of the history however is the debate surounding its origin, and the "official" history accepted by the church. This leads one to wonder how it really came to be, and how much of the history has been glossed over or changed by church officials.

The organization seems to be largely based upon the old Byzantine church of the Eastern Orthodox Christians, which fits well enough, though It has very little detail other than titles and ranks. It would be nice to know the roles and duties of the various positions within the church heirarchy.

The Ormedish Church is far more interesting to me (and not just because of the fact that I had some input in it  :D ). The Ormedish Church is more militant and concerned with personal power and strength. It seems more concerned with maintaining control and like a tool use by the wealthy and powerful to legitimize their role in society.

The doctrines of the church are fairly standard tyranical beliefs, that emphasize absolute control and opression to keep order. The best part however is their acknolwedgment of Corbin within their doctrines, and belief that he attained godhood for reasons entirely different that those presented by their rival faith. In classic underdog style, they attack the bigger faith in their own doctrines.

The history is somewhat bland and could use a great event of some sort. For a church of domineering tyrants they have a surprisingly boring history without any significant military campaigns, or major victories, which would help. They aspire to crown a new emperor, but have yet to succeed...they need a success of some kind somewhere in there.

The organization of the church is fantastic however. It has a rigid heirarchy that is both interesting and befitting of their mentality. Of particular note was the appointment of a noble elder.

Untimely death in this case means within twelve days of their appointment, which is the minimum time a Noble Elder is required to wait before naming their successor. Unfortunately, the first twelve days of Noble Eldership also happen to be the most dangerous: most Noble Elders sit in the council either less than twelve days or more than five years.

I love this!

I'll post on the races next. Probably tomorrow.

-Peace-

[Xeviat]

I've read over your bit on class information; first, I think I found a typo (you listed Sorcerers as having 5 sanity resistance at level 20, but if they start at 1 at 1st level and gain 1 every 4 levels, shouldn't they gain sanity resistance 6 at 20th level?).

Secondly, I like that you've put more organization into the nature of spellcasting for each class. Your idea for sorcerers is fun, though I think they may need something to make up for the sanity risk. Do their sanity points regenerate each day, like HP?

I'm going to read over the religions and see if I can find some of those Clerical taboos. Very good idea by the way.

(I commented on the classes first because it's easier for me to provide feedback on crunch, as I feel most people here know what they're looking for in their fluff).

[Soup Nazi]

Well I suppose I'll start on the races of Orden. I'd like to lead off with some of the things that caught my attention. The elves and their matriarchal society, actually sounds quite interesting. I had at first glance, been against the idea, but it actually sounds preety good. Maybe I had some preconceived notions from the drow clouding my initial impression, but after reading it through, it is structured well, makes sense, and doesn't diminish the importance of males in their culture.

The Felion really need some more detail. Unlike elves, humans, dwarves, and other PHB races, the Felion don't jump out at the reader with visual images. A short paragraph about dwarves can be adequate, becuase we already know about them, but for the Felion it just doesn't give us enough. New races need quite a bit more detail in order to bring them to life.

Xeph are awesome, and I'm glad to see them in a pronounced role in a setting. The psuedo-oriental theme you have selected for them is great, and I think they make a fine substitute for halflings (which I think was your intent).

You have an interesting take on the half-breeds and their origin. The half elves as creatures with the best qualities of both human and elf, is a nice twist. I do wonder however why the orcs did not get similar treatment. Since they were specifically created as a slave race, it stands to reason that strength and constitution bonuses (like an orc) would be a great asset. I am curious why the half-elves got boosted and the half-orcs got slighted. It seems that they were created by similar means.

I am slightly dissapointed with the gnomes, and not just because I'm not a big fan of the race either. The steroetypical gnome tinkerer is not something I have ever been a huge fan of in any serious game. They play the role of comic relief in most settings, and unfortunately your gnomes are not much different than the streotype I dislike so much. That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with gnomes as presented though. All it means is that I personally don't like core gnomes, and yours don't differ enough to peak my interest.

The rest is fairly standard fair, but that's just fine. PHB races don't really need any tweaking to be interesting. So long as their nations and cultures are well defined and fresh, they can be completely different, while being mechanically identical.

I'll hit up either nations or classes next.

-Peace-

[Hibou]

While I haven't given it a thorough read (yet), I have skimmed over your information several times and can say that Orden's Mysteries is a very interesting campaign setting. The theme of mystery and the removal of alignment in particular pique my interest, and I'll be sure to give it a decent review in the future :)

[Epic Meepo]

Another quick question: how do the taboos of the Morvindhic church work for female clerics?  Are they still required to be polite towards women, or are they instead required to be polite towards men?

[Xathan]

Ok, I'm gong to comment randomly, since I'm reading random tidbits:

The Felion are really cool. Are they actually just long lost cousions of humanity, or a different race? I was just talking about how bland the Mystic Theruge class is, and there you go an make it interesting. I agree with Nasty that we need more on the Felion, especially apperance wise.

I really like the Ormedish Church. Just curious, how much of that doctrine was inspired by Hobbe's philosophies? I could see Leviathian almost reading the same as the Ormedishian holy text.

Like nasty, I like what you've done with the Xeph. I would like to see more abou them, however. They're a race that the sterotype is not  yet as sunk in, and therefore have alot of room for addition.

That's what I got for now, I'll bounce around to more later. Great stuff, over all.

[Túrin]

Thanks everyone! I'm glad you all took the time (be it long or short) to take a look and tell me what you think. Many comments here (not just nasty's) give me food for thought. A few initial reactions:

@ nastynate: I'm not even sure whether I want to comment on your analyses, but if I do, I'll wait until you're finished. Please make a note of it when you post your last one. So far, your in-depth critiques have been extremely useful to reflect on my own work. Thanks a lot!

@ Xeviat: the text is actually correct: it says Sorcerers get resistance 1 at level 4, increasing by one every four levels thereafter. Thus, he has resistance 0 throughout levels 1-3,and reaches 5 at level 20.

Sanity is regained naturally at the same rate as hp: 1 point per level per day (this works off character level, not class level). Natural Sanity healing is received if and when the character has slept 8 hours, but sleeping longer or using the Heal skill will never increase the amount of daily Sanity healing. Divine magic is required for this. Thanks, comment at your leisure!

@ WitchHunt: Thanks! Looking forward to it.

@ Epic_Meepo: This was something I hadn't thought of yet. Note that most of the clergy consists of men, especially in the Morvindhic and Ormedish churches (which are stuffed with the second sons of nobles, who send their (first) daughters to wizard school). I'm inclined to say that female clergy would also be required to be polite to women. The taboo is based on "protecting the weaker sex", not "protecting the other sex", and I think female clerics would be somewhat manly in their mannerisms and would feel a desire to protect other (weaker) women. Thanks for pointing this out!

@ Xathan, Last Of The Fallen: more on the felion and xeph will probably come soon, as it looks like I will have both a felion and a xeph in my new campaign (I'm glad I've piqued the interest of both the people here and my new group of players with these new races).

Initially, I just wanted the Ormedish Church to be tyrannical, and I wrote down "tyrannical lordship" as a catchphrase for their doctrine. Once I had to write a full paragraph about their doctrine, I found that I needed some way to make it sound at least somewhat convincing, rather than just screaming "lawful evil cliché", if I was going to make myself believe ordinary people would follow this church. So I thought for a few minutes and came up with the doctrine as it stands now. It isn't deliberately based on Hobbes, but I've read an excerpt from Leviathan earier this year, so I imagine he could have been a subconscious inspiration. Thanks to you as well, for the kind words!

Hope to hear from you all later!
Túrin

[Soup Nazi]

@ nastynate: I'm not even sure whether I want to comment on your analyses, but if I do, I'll wait until you're finished. Please make a note of it when you post your last one. So far, your in-depth critiques have been extremely useful to reflect on my own work. Thanks a lot!

Feel free to post now or later, but I was hoping for some decent dialogue and discussion. I would much rather hear what you have to say, and discuss the pros and cons, than do a detached review. It may be encouraging to note that I have to actually search for inconsistencies and other things I don't like, but the things I do like greatly out-number them.

I think your input will only help me to help you.

-Peace-

[Túrin]

I think you're right. Let's see if I can break down your earlier posts and comment on them wherever I have something to say.

the xeph (nice choice by the way) have their conceptual religion known as the Madja.

A minor correction here: Madja is the name I give to the conceptual religion followed by the felion. The xeph have an animist-like religion. Their pantheon is called the takuri (or something like that ;)).

A single deity often feels like a shallow one dimensional patron, that really restricts their followers to a select few particularly devoted extremists.

While the thread on WotC has more churches, the thread here at CBG has only two. For the time being I will consider these two churches as "complete" in the sense that they have much more detail, and a firmly established history, structure, and role in society.[/quote] I hope to eventually detail the other six major churches that are briefly mentioned in the WotC-thread in the same way. Until then, don't forget that there are eight major churches, not two.

The best part of the history however is the debate surounding its origin, and the "official" history accepted by the church. This leads one to wonder how it really came to be, and how much of the history has been glossed over or changed by church officials.

[The Ormedish Church] seems more concerned with maintaining control and like a tool use by the wealthy and powerful to legitimize their role in society.[/quote]The history is somewhat bland and could use a great event of some sort.[/quote]
The Felion really need some more detail.[/quote] As I mentioned, I expect to give felion and xeph some more attention soon, as I will have one of each in my upcoming campaign as it stands now. As for the felion: they were created just before my first campaign started and never got some good thinking behind them. We'll see where that goes. I want to try to keep them at least somewhat mysterious though.

I am curious why the half-elves got boosted and the half-orcs got slighted. It seems that they were created by similar means.

The rest is fairly standard fair,[/quote] What exactly do you mean by "the rest"? Didn't you name every race individually except dwarves? So aren't you just saying "the dwarves are fairly standard fair"? Or am I missing something here?

I think that's all I have to say for now. Thanks for these very helpful thoughts.

Cheers!
Túrin