Calisenthe

[Acrimone]

I'm starting wiki work.  I really don't like the way things show up in the forum postings, so please forgive.  Discussion, when it comes around, will go here.

As of right now, all I have is an intro page and a very very sparse introduction to the atlas page.  I've got tons of material, but it's going to take a long while to put it all up and get it formatted properly.  (For instance, most of my map files are 10MB+ in size, so I'm having to shrink them all down and figure out how to relabel them.)

But for what it's worth, what I have done is here.

I'll bump this as I add appreciative amounts of new material.  Comments and criticism welcome and solicited.

[Lmns Crn]

Hey, interesting. I've been reading the stuff you've been posting today, and I was preparing a big comment for the main discussion page. Am I right in inferring, based on

Discussion, when it comes around, will go here.

,  that you'd rather see comments in this thread than in discussion pages?

One place or another, I'm planning to to give you a shout about Calisenthe.

[Acrimone]

I don't know how the discussion pages work... I'd love to use them though!

Please feel free to post whatever you'd like to the discussion pages.  Just, um... post a link here showing me how to get to them.  Do I just hit the "discussion" tab at the top of each page?

[Lmns Crn]

Do I just hit the "discussion" tab at the top of each page?

That's correct. Every wiki page has its own discussion page, and you get to it from that "discussion" tab and then edit it like any other wiki page. Lots of wiki users (myself included) have been using discussion tabs to annotate their own work, or to comment on the work of others.

[Acrimone]

Sweet.  I look forward to discussions, then.

[Acrimone]

Just a note on progress:

History is done.  There's a minor discrepancy in something I wrote regarding the Great Korom Wars of 1300-1307, but I'll get around to fixing that and we're not really at the point where anyone's going to notice anyway.

Atlas is in progress.  I'm subdividing the Atlas into regions and detail maps.  The first region and its first two subdivisions are done.  Everything else still needs to be put together.

But we're making progress.  I just wanted to give people a heads up so that they didn't have to do all their criticizing at once.

Link is at the top of the page.  It's not in the settings list on the wiki front page yet.

[Acrimone]

I have continued to update the wiki entries.  The Atlas still needs work, but I did put up a page on Magic.  I was working on technology but (apropos, I suppose) I had a network crash and lost what I was writing.  Should be up in a couple of hours.

UPDATE: Inhabitants front page is up, so everyone who is into what races a world has can now go see.

UPDATE: The front page for the Sethreki Empire is up.

I would really love feedback from all and sundry.  Comments, critiques, suggestions... and it's a wiki.  So edit away!

[Acrimone]

I'm bumping this thread ONCE AGAIN for two reasons:

1) A shameless plug for attention.

2) The page for the Wizard's College is done at last and I'm very happy with my efforts.  Now I want people to tell me how it sucks, so I can make it better.

[LordVreeg]

A bit review of the Wizard's College.
(Full Disclosure-- There might be some automatic, unconsious comparison to my Collegium Arcana, since there are unavoidable similarities...but I'll try to avoid them)
(BTW--INtersting choice, using Rolemaster.  Good for you.  Stick out fom the pack.)

The Overview is very rough reading.  Instead of going into what this organization means in the world, its position or relevance, or what it will mean to GM's or PCs, you start with who founded it.  Then you go into what it is interested in and what it does not control.  This is not a good start to an overview.  What is this organization and what does it mean for a GM?  I'm not saying not to include these things, but start the overview literally from a perspective of letting the reader 'see over everything at once'.

Like the titles and divisions.  They make sense and are nicely setting specific.  Also obvious enough for folk outside the organization to understand.

Relationships between masters and apprentices are normally permanent?  I now rate Calisenthe as more fantasy based than almost any I have read about.  This breaks every rule of organizational behavior in the book.  I can see a special fondness and perhaps a long relaionship, but purely due to the hierarchal nature of a pyramidally structured organization, with less room for growth at the top, etc, I doubt any organization without the capacity for ability overtaking experience to survive.  Talk about this, maybe I'm missing something.

Love the Edict.  Just love it.  The power of magic in a fantasy world needs to be policed by it's own (or mitigated in some way), and I think you have come up with a nice mechanism for this.  Rogues and renegades, anyone?

Love the oath, but there needs to be a paragraph on basic history before this, maybe after the overviwe, as you are name dropping like crazy here without a safety net.

The 2 last sections are among the best.  The crimes and punishments are nice and make some sense, though the rule of Neutrality might get sticky.  It's just a rule, however...
But the last bit on how to make a living is plain great.  The dynamic at the end of it, about who they can bitch to, also told me volumes in a few words.

[Acrimone]

The Overview is very rough reading.  Instead of going into what this organization means in the world, its position or relevance, or what it will mean to GM's or PCs, you start with who founded it.  Then you go into what it is interested in and what it does not control.  This is not a good start to an overview.  What is this organization and what does it mean for a GM?  I'm not saying not to include these things, but start the overview literally from a perspective of letting the reader 'see over everything at once'.

These are valid criticisms and I shall see what I can do to address this.

Relationships between masters and apprentices are normally permanent?  I now rate Calisenthe as more fantasy based than almost any I have read about.  This breaks every rule of organizational behavior in the book.  I can see a special fondness and perhaps a long relaionship, but purely due to the hierarchal nature of a pyramidally structured organization, with less room for growth at the top, etc, I doubt any organization without the capacity for ability overtaking experience to survive.  Talk about this, maybe I'm missing something.

The original idea I had for this was that everyone except a privileged few had to answer to someone.  I've always imagined the College as inherently fascist: they really want to know what you are doing, where you are doing it, and they want to have a say in it.  The mechanism I designed for this (as you can see) is that everyone answers to someone, all the way up the pipe.

Part of the motivation for this setup is the fact that level progression in Rolemaster is linear.  If I'm 10 levels ahead of you, and we keep earning the same amount of XP, I'm going to be 10 levels ahead of you forever.  Now, that doesn't actually mean that much for most skills, but for spell list acquisition and the development of magical skills it really can be important: you can learn at absolute most 2 spell lists per level.  Magic-using classes' strength and flexibility depend on level far more than non-magic using classes.    Most Apprentices are around 5th level when they choose a master, and most masters are Masters (which I'm going to go ahead and lie and say is the reason for the similarity in title there).  Most Masters are at least 20th level.  That means most Masters have a 15-level overhead on their pupils.  That's an awful lot of ground for an Apprentice to make up, even if they are a prodigy.

Now the way Rolemaster works, great stats (i.e., natural talent) and very lucky background rolls (i.e., more natural talent) can go a long way to making a low level character the functional equivalent of a high level character.  A totally tricked-out ghetto-Honda of a 3rd level fighter is probably going to have better offensive bonuses than a run-of-the-mill 8th level fighter.  But it's not going to get you more spell lists, and I actually like that for the following reason: I wanted magic to be something that takes a lot of work.  I didn't want it to be the sort of thing where raw power and talent is important, which is why I changed the effect of high stats on power point generation.  I wanted magic to be all about discipline and practice.  Sure, maybe the brilliant young 3rd level Runemaster (I have one in my campaign right now) has ztats to die for, and an uncanny ability to tap into life energies for raw magic power.  But he doesn't have the experience and discipline to turn that power into all the types of effects that even an 8th level Runemaster could.

Finally, if you're an apprentice, even if level progression slows as you get older, you're probably going to see your Master dead of old age before you reach his level, assuming you ever reach it at all.  THe ranks of Scholars are filled with people who will never advance to Master.

Anyway, this is all by way of saying that you may be (and probably are) right, but I did have some reasons for what I did.  I think I'll probably take a stab at revising this aspect, too.

Love the oath, but there needs to be a paragraph on basic history before this, maybe after the overviwe, as you are name dropping like crazy here without a safety net.

I worry about redundancy and repetition... all that historical goodness is in the history section.  But I'll see what I can do.


THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!  I love criticism.  It makes everything better, except the weak who can't handle it.  Give me more!   :yumm:


PS - Regarding my choice for Rolemaster... I guess my question is, after reading through some of your Guildschool rules and the rationales behind them, why aren't you using Rolemaster for your world?
 :?:

[LordVreeg]

[blockquote=Acrimone]PS - Regarding my choice for Rolemaster... I guess my question is, after reading through some of your Guildschool rules and the rationales behind them, why aren't you using Rolemaster for your world?[/blockquote]

Vreegs rule of Settings #1--The setting determines the system, the system should never determine the setting.

My highest PC hit point total is 44, and that is a character that has played consistently for 13 years now.  Rolemaster is, as many other games are, a little free with the amount of damage taken.
I have 11 sources of void-borne power to fuel spells that need to be accounted for.
Their skill system, while tremendously useful and extensive, does not allow for the sub skills and dropdoowns I use.
 
And I have tried very hard to create progression where chaarcters lean subskills and try to diversify, since I believe that the better one gets at something, the harder it gets to continue that growth so I have to avoid this...

[blockquote=Acrimone] Part of the motivation for this setup is the fact that level progression in Rolemaster is linear. If I'm 10 levels ahead of you, and we keep earning the same amount of XP, I'm going to be 10 levels ahead of you forever.[/blockquote]

...at all costs.  This is one of the reasons I don;t have 50 or 100 HP charactes (let alone higher numbers).

but I think the system is one of the better ones available.

[LordVreeg]

Acrimone, the intro is much improved!  Very clear and inviting, as well as great hook for DM and Players alike.  Kudos!

[Acrimone]

And I have tried very hard to create progression where chaarcters lean subskills and try to diversify, since I believe that the better one gets at something, the harder it gets to continue that growth so I have to avoid this...

[blockquote=Acrimone] Part of the motivation for this setup is the fact that level progression in Rolemaster is linear. If I'm 10 levels ahead of you, and we keep earning the same amount of XP, I'm going to be 10 levels ahead of you forever.[/blockquote]

...at all costs.  

Not that I'm trying to convert you or anything, but your concern is built into the skill bonus progression.  The first ten ranks of a skill each give +5, then the next ten give +2, then all subsequent give +1.  So you can catch up to someone fairly easy in a particular skill.  The advantage of my being 10 levels ahead of you is that I'm going to have more skills across the board, not that my bonuses are going to be so insanely larger than yours.

The hit point thing... well, no one dies from hit point damage in Rolemaster anyway.  It's always that arrow through the eye or the severed artery or the crushed skull.  Crits, crits, crits... but I can understand how you might not want that.

Thanks for engaging in the discussion though!

AND FOR ALL OF YOU WHO AREN'T LORD VREEG... IT'S SHAMELESS SELF-PROMOTION TIME!

I now have a bunch of pages in semi-final form up on the wiki:

Warfare: Learn about how the various cultures of the world approach battle and awar.
Magic: Learn about the difference between Essence Magic, Channeling Magic, and Mentalism
The Wizard's College: See how awesome the introduction is after Vreeg's assistance!
Gods:  Learn about the Gods, and why bad things happen to good people.
Inhabitants: Learn about the races of humanity, and some inhuman races as well.
Technology: Learn about how the various cultures engage in engineering, architecture, and metallurgy.
Languages: Not as interesting as some of the others, this nevertheless has to be covered.  After all, it's boring if everyone just speaks Common.
The Sethreki Empire: Learn about the most powerful political force on the face of the world today!

History is complete as well, though it takes some time to get through it all.  I really should do a summary page with the highlights.  And the Atlas is under construction.

Go visit... read up... and then really let me have it!

[Acrimone]

I just added a page that I wrote this morning setting out a very rough skeleton of politics in the Imperial Court.  It is accessible from the Sethreki Empire page.  All and sundry are encouraged to comment... but no hard feelings if you don't. :)

[LordVreeg]

so I always love looking at your factions page (not a surpise, right?)  

What type of humans exist in the Underground?  What do they eat, and how do they interact with the outside world?  What is life far below like?


I need more info on the Chivalric orders, and if there is a relationship/prohibition with the Mercenary companies.   And can the merc groups pay a member of the Wizard's guild to fight?