What Can People Do?

[beejazz]

How far can a man climb in five seconds? How high can he jump? How hard is it to do things in general?

I'm writing my skill system, and I need to know... where do you find this stuff out?

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Google for record high jump. Other stuff might be more difficult to find, depending on whether it's commonly tested.

I'm sure climbing depends a lot on the surface. A person can probably climb something with good handholds much more quickly.

[Nomadic]

It depends on the person and the situation very heavily. A good rule of thumb is that the average human can jump up to as tall as they are (depending on the jump, a jump without getting any momentum would make for less height). As for climbing I am not really sure, you might watch some videos of rock climbers. I know it's pretty slow, about a foot a second or so if you have good handholds.

[Seraph]

Have you seen people doing Parkour?  It's pretty amazing what people can do.  

[Raven Bloodmoon]

How far can a man climb in five seconds? How high can he jump? How hard is it to do things in general?

I'm writing my skill system, and I need to know... where do you find this stuff out?

It really varies depending on the circumstances, like someone has already said.  Somethign akind to climbing is incredibly dependant on myriad variables.  How large are the grips?  How smooth are the grips?  What's the incline?  Are any dynamics required or is it mostly static climbing?  What sort of equipment are you using?  What sort of endurance do you have?  What sort of strength do you have?  What sort of dexterity do you have?  How much experience climbing do you have?

Somehting like running, jumping, and throwing random objects, yo shoudl be able to look up stats for.  Not sure what other things you need information on.

[SDragon]

I can talk while inhaling. Wait, that's not what you're talking about, is it?

Seriously, though:

It really varies depending on the circumstances, like someone has already said.  Somethign akind to climbing is incredibly dependant on myriad variables.  How large are the grips?  How smooth are the grips?  What's the incline?  Are any dynamics required or is it mostly static climbing?  What sort of equipment are you using?  What sort of endurance do you have?  What sort of strength do you have?  What sort of dexterity do you have?  How much experience climbing do you have?

I was going to say something more or less along the lines of this. I'm pretty good at climbing trees, for example. I max out at different speeds on different trees, though. I'm not quite as good at indoor rock climbing. Even worse at outdoor rock climbing. Both of those are even harder for me if I don't have any equipment. Don't even get me started on trying to climb an avalanche, because I'm not even going to bother.

With my experience tree-climbing, I'd like to throw in the variables of how sturdy the grips are (weaker branches requires much more care to climb), and how dense the grips are (this can be a problem in two ways: too far apart, and it's harder to reach for the next grip, but too close, and it's harder to squeeze between the grips).

[beejazz]

@Phoenix:That's good for a max, but not as much the average, which is more what I need (since in an RPG, if you buy the hell out of it you can go waaaaaaaay over max, but you start around average).

@Nomadic: Yeah... I do want my system to take circumstances into account pretty heavily, though mostly it only has one speed each for success and failure with circumstances changing the odds so slower or faster is more likely (I guess there's also critical failure for falling too). There's other kinda silly bits like how feats can improve the ground you cover on a success... and the same rules apply more or less for all movement skills.

But yeah? About a foot a second? So... in a five second round, five feet?

@Seraphim: I've only spent hours on youtube looking at exactly that... that shit is awesome!

@Raven: My variables so far include incline, slipperiness, and presence/absence of ropes and handholds. At least for the DC. Training and strength do determine your skill.

If only there was some central source of general knowledge about human capabilities...

[LordVreeg]

The translation of human and demihuman ability translated to numerical equivalents is the definition of a 'rule system'.  Damn.

[beejazz]

The translation of human and demihuman ability translated to numerical equivalents is the definition of a 'rule system'.  Damn.

I am confused...

[SDragon]

Just say running is twenty feet a second, and walking is five feet a second. If a football field in 15 seconds is too fast or slow, then adjust it from there.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

@Raven: My variables so far include incline, slipperiness, and presence/absence of ropes and handholds. At least for the DC. Training and strength do determine your skill.

Personally, I'd base climbing far more heavily on agility and balance (however you represent that) than on brute strength.  If anything, strong people often have difficulties because they weigh more and must, then, lift more.  Your grace while climbing limits your speed and ability.  Look up some videos of Chris Sharma on youtube. He's in excellent shape, but he's graceful.  Stregth is needed more for dynamic movment (like jumping for a higher hold or throwing yourself sideways to a ledge).

[Nomadic]

@Raven: My variables so far include incline, slipperiness, and presence/absence of ropes and handholds. At least for the DC. Training and strength do determine your skill.

Personally, I'd base climbing far more heavily on agility and balance (however you represent that) than on brute strength.  If anything, strong people often have difficulties because they weigh more and must, then, lift more.  Your grace while climbing limits your speed and ability.  Look up some videos of Chris Sharma on youtube. He's in excellent shape, but he's graceful.  Stregth is needed more for dynamic movment (like jumping for a higher hold or throwing yourself sideways to a ledge).

While I agree that agility should control strength I have to disagree with climbers being more graceful than ripped. Coming from central Oregon we have a huge focus on the outdoors including quite heavily climbing (primarily of the local cliffs though the mountains get their fair share) I know alot of climbers. Not a one of them that does it regularly isn't quite heavily muscled (primarily in the arms and abdomen). Sure there is grace born of coordination but climbing tends to build alot of upper body strength since you are regularly supporting your entire weight with just your arms.

[SDragon]

@Raven: My variables so far include incline, slipperiness, and presence/absence of ropes and handholds. At least for the DC. Training and strength do determine your skill.

Personally, I'd base climbing far more heavily on agility and balance (however you represent that) than on brute strength.  If anything, strong people often have difficulties because they weigh more and must, then, lift more.  Your grace while climbing limits your speed and ability.  Look up some videos of Chris Sharma on youtube. He's in excellent shape, but he's graceful.  Stregth is needed more for dynamic movment (like jumping for a higher hold or throwing yourself sideways to a ledge).

While I agree that agility should control strength I have to disagree with climbers being more graceful than ripped. Coming from central Oregon we have a huge focus on the outdoors including quite heavily climbing (primarily of the local cliffs though the mountains get their fair share) I know alot of climbers. Not a one of them that does it regularly isn't quite heavily muscled (primarily in the arms and abdomen). Sure there is grace born of coordination but climbing tends to build alot of upper body strength since you are regularly supporting your entire weight with just your arms.

This is an interesting debate. Personally, I say it's equally both, but it's a matter of where the focus is. The focus for the upper body is, for the most part, very clearly on strength. Doing the rough equivalent of chin-ups at all sorts of awkward, dynamic angles will do that. The focus for the lower body, however, is definitely more flexibility. When climbing, you frequently run into situations where you need to lift your feet higher and/or further out then you normally would. Easily reachable footholds can be hard to find, at times. Balance and fast-twitch reflexes factor in, and are IMHO just as important, but they're subtle enough that you can gloss over them with a game system.


I think the Chris Sharma videos i saw are prime examples of this. If you pay attention to his upper body, you'll see times when he's just dangling from handholds, lifting his entire body up with just his arms. If you pay attention to his lower body, you'll see there's times when he's almost doing splits reaching for footholds. balance and fast-twitch reflexes are also evident, but again, subtle enough to be waved off in a game system.

[Porklet]

You could look it up in GURPS.  In GURPS the turns are broken down into seconds, and there is an emphasis on realism.

[Raven Bloodmoon]

Nomadic, having done it, I have to disagree.  While core muscles are important for endurance purposes, the rest is just sort of acquired.  You shouldn't have to use your arms for much of anything other than stabalizing yourself or just hanging (which requries virtually no exertion).  Your legs do almsot all of the heavy lifting unless the route setter was an ass.  And additionally, the more graceful your movements, the less difficult you have to grasp at the rock/tree/ladder/brick/whatever you're climbing.  It is hardly uncommon to support your entire body weight with an open palm just spread across a sloped portion of rock - no amount of strength will keep you there, but body positioning will.

Halfling, go back and look again and you'll see that yes, splits are common, but where the legs are most useful is in propelling the body.  Find places where he looks like he's just doing a chinup and see if he's not using his legs.  I don't think I ever really do chinups unless I screw up and need a fast out because my grip is slipping.  Really, the three keys are grace, precision (put your toe exactly where it needs to be; don't just slide it into position), and not stopping.  The slower you move, the longer you're climbing and the more tired you get.  Use muscles that don't get tired as easily - you're legs.  Arms and back are just to keep you from falling off.  Even when you're upside down.

Porklet, in Gurps, it's based on Dexterity.