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Tinkering: Types of Worlds

Started by LD, May 25, 2009, 12:40:54 AM

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Superfluous Crow

I still think that, from a setting maker's perspective, you don't really need the two. But it could perhaps work if we roll it together in one column as you suggest.
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Nomadic

I do think you need the two. Without both of them for example you couldn't describe either my UR or vreeg's Celtricia, both of which have magic everywhere but the magic tends to more often be weak and/or mundane.

I do like the idea of rolling them together though as that's removes some of the complexity of extra categories while still maintaining needed description.

LD

Note: First chart updated (only with a few links and requested adds. I think I added all who requested.)

Elemental_Elf

I think 2 are needed. One is a general categorization of settings, clumping them by a similar feel. While the second chart is a more detailed look into each individual setting.

It sounds complicated but in reality it isn't.

Kaptn'Lath

in the updated matrix a MINOR change if time, Forgotten Realms 3rd Ok Bureaucracy, can we list 2nd Edition FR as discovery/exploration, maybe more might focused (more fighters before magic power creep) i dunno. Just the two FR as so different. more different than 3.5 and 4e..
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Elemental_Elf

Quote from: Lathin the updated matrix a MINOR change if time, Forgotten Realms 3rd Ok Bureaucracy, can we list 2nd Edition FR as discovery/exploration, maybe more might focused (more fighters before magic power creep) i dunno. Just the two FR as so different. more different than 3.5 and 4e..

If you're going that far, you may as well include the 4E Realms, which are more High Fantasy Adventure, as there are good Kingdoms and Evil kingdoms now and a lot of empty space between them.

Ghostman

Alright, I've got a revised table here, with settings ripped from Light Dragon's matrix. Damn lot of work to make it x.

Style - corresponds to the 'Style' axis in Light Dragon's matrix.
* Adventure
* Bureaucracy
* Discovery/Exploration
* Wonder
* Survival (not in LD's matrix)

Genre - corresponds to the 'Setting' axis in Light Dragon's matrix.
* Dystopian
* High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)
* Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)
* Horror
* Modern / Superheroes
* Space
* Steampunk / Pulp
* Weird
* Fairy Tale (not in LD's matrix)

Tone - general feel of the setting.
* Lighthearted
* Medium
* Grim

Fantasticity - how common fantasy elements are, and how significant/powerful they are. Both qualities should be included (separate with a | character).
* Absent/Rare/Common/Ubiquitous: Measures the commonness; from non-fantasy to utterly fantastic worlds.
* Weak/Medium/Strong Measures the significance/power of the elements.

Technology - the flavour of technology in the setting. Instead of a single type, a setting may have a range of tech types or a mix of them.
* No Tech
* Stone Age
* Ancient
* Medieval: Dark Ages to Renaissance
* Pre-modern (I think a better name is needed here)
* Modern: Early 20th century to contemporary times.
* Futuristic
* Steampunk: Technology takes an intentionally unrealistic flavour, with focus on weird steam-based/clockwork inventions.
* Magitech: Magic and technology are blended, possibly to the point where they become indistinguishable.

Morality - how moral issues are presented by the setting.
* Simplistic: Morality is presented as clear-cut good vs evil - or using some other simple structure.
* Ambiguous: Morality is painted in shades of gray.
* Cynical: Morality is sidelined; characters are motivated only by their interests and base desires, even if they convince others (and/or themselves) to believe otherwise.

Focus - what the setting highlights.
* Politics/Intrigue
* Action
* Horror
* Drama
* Mystery
* Humor
* Romance

Divinity - how the setting presents things that are beleived to be supernatural and given religious significance by it's inhabitants.
* n/a: Religion is absent in the setting.
* Fake Divinity: Religion exists, but any divinities featured in it are either imaginary or simply mundane things that are wrongly elevated to status of divinity.
* Passive Divinity: Divine things are real but do not play an active role in the setting.
* Active Divinity: Divine things are real and actively influence the setting.
* Obscure Divinity: The realness of divinity in the setting is left unknown.


I'll be needing help with filling all these slots...

[spoiler=The Big Giant Table of Settings]

[th]
Setting Name[/th]
[th]Style[/th]
[th]Genre[/th]
[th]Tone[/th]
[th]Fantasticity[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Morality[/th]
[th]Focus[/th]
[th]Divinity[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]Changeling: The Dreaming[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Reth Jaleract (Kindling)[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Knife's Edge (Kindling)[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]The World of Arga (Leetz)[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Tempter (Steerpike)[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Ambiguous?[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Active Divinity[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Dark Sun[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td]Grim[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Discworld of Tu'loras (Lath)[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]The Cadaverous Earth (Steerpike)[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Dystopian, Horror[/td]
[td]Grim[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Ambiguous, Cynical?[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][th]Setting Name[/th]
[th]Style[/th]
[th]Genre[/th]
[th]Tone[/th]
[th]Fantasticity[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Morality[/th]
[th]Focus[/th]
[th]Divinity[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]World of Darkness: Dark Ages[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Dystopian[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Dragonlance[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td]Medium-Lighthearted?[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Medieval[/td]
[td]Simplistic?[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Active Divinity[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]The Lord of the Rings[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Medieval[/td]
[td]Simplistic?[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Mystara[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Common | Strong?[/td]
[td]Medieval?[/td]
[td]Simplistic?[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Celtricia[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Exalted[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Forgotten Realms[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td]Medium[/td]
[td]Common | Strong[/td]
[td]Medieval[/td]
[td]Simplistic[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Active Divinity[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]World of Ethshar (book: Watt-Evans)[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][th]Setting Name[/th]
[th]Style[/th]
[th]Genre[/th]
[th]Tone[/th]
[th]Fantasticity[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Morality[/th]
[th]Focus[/th]
[th]Divinity[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]The Hobbit[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Planescape[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]High Fantasy (Magic-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Simplistic[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Active Divinity[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]The Bronze Setting (Llum)[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Conan/Hyborian Age[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)[/td]
[td]Grim-Medium[/td]
[td]Rare | Medium[/td]
[td]Ancient-Medieval[/td]
[td]Ambiguous, Cynical[/td]
[td]Action, Horror[/td]
[td]Fake/Active Divinity[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Eschaton (Phoenix)[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Greyhawk[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Medieval[/td]
[td]Simplistic[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]A Game of Thrones (book: George RR Martin)[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)[/td]
[td]Grim[/td]
[td]Rare | Weak-Medium[/td]
[td]Medieval[/td]
[td]Ambiguous, Cynical[/td]
[td]Politics/Intrigue[/td]
[td]Obscure Divinity[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Lords of Dus (book: Watt-Evans)[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][th]Setting Name[/th]
[th]Style[/th]
[th]Genre[/th]
[th]Tone[/th]
[th]Fantasticity[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Morality[/th]
[th]Focus[/th]
[th]Divinity[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]The Clockwork Jungle (Polycarp)[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Low Fantasy (Might-Focus)[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Ravenloft[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Horror[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Horror[/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Dystopian Universe (Biohazard)[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Horror[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]World of Darkness[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Horror, Modern / Superheroes[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Haveneast (Biohazard)[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Horror[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Shadowrun[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Modern / Superheroes[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]WonderWorld (Light Dragon)[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Modern / Superheroes[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Firefly/Serenity[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Space[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][th]Setting Name[/th]
[th]Style[/th]
[th]Genre[/th]
[th]Tone[/th]
[th]Fantasticity[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Morality[/th]
[th]Focus[/th]
[th]Divinity[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]Spelljammer[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Space[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Star Trek: Deep Space Nine[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Space[/td]
[td]Medium[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Futuristic[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Politics/Intrigue, Drama[/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Star Wars[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Space[/td]
[td]Medium[/td]
[td]Rare | Medium[/td]
[td]Futuristic[/td]
[td]Simplistic[/td]
[td]Action, Drama[/td]
[td]Passive Divinity (The Force)[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Dystopian Universe (Biohazard)[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Space[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Spaceships, Sixguns, and Cyclopean Horrors (Steerpike)[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Space[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Star Trek: Voyager[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Space[/td]
[td]Medium[/td]
[td][/td]
[td]Futuristic[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Eberron[/td]
[td]Adventure, Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Steampunk / Pulp[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Castle Falkenstein [/td]
[td]Adventure, Wonder[/td]
[td]Steampunk / Pulp[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][th]Setting Name[/th]
[th]Style[/th]
[th]Genre[/th]
[th]Tone[/th]
[th]Fantasticity[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Morality[/th]
[th]Focus[/th]
[th]Divinity[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]Hollow Earth Expedition[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Steampunk / Pulp[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Masque of the Red Death[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Steampunk / Pulp[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Etherscope[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Steampunk / Pulp[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Mare Eternus (Nomadic)[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Steampunk / Pulp[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Xell: Chimera City (Steerpike)[/td]
[td]Adventure[/td]
[td]Weird[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Changeling: The Dreaming[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Weird[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Fluxworld (Steerpike)[/td]
[td]Bureaucracy[/td]
[td]Weird[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Alice in Wonderland (GrimGrin)[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Weird[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][th]Setting Name[/th]
[th]Style[/th]
[th]Genre[/th]
[th]Tone[/th]
[th]Fantasticity[/th]
[th]Technology[/th]
[th]Morality[/th]
[th]Focus[/th]
[th]Divinity[/th][/tr]

[tr][td]Cthulhu Mythos[/td]
[td]Discovery/Exploration[/td]
[td]Horror, Weird[/td]
[td]Grim[/td]
[td]Rare | Weak-Strong[/td]
[td]Modern[/td]
[td]Ambiguous[/td]
[td]Horror[/td]
[td]Fake/Active Divinity[/td][/tr]

[tr][td]Gloria (Light Dragon)[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Weird[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[tr][td]The Land of Oz[/td]
[td]Wonder[/td]
[td]Weird[/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td]
[td][/td][/tr]

[/table]
[/spoiler]

I could cut the 'Style' and 'Genre' columns out, since that information is already included in LD's matrix (although he doesn't list as many options as I do, and some of the settings obviously fall to more than just the categories he currently has them listed under).
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

SilvercatMoonpaw

Looks good so far.
Quote from: Ghostman* Pre-modern (I think a better name is needed here)
Discovery/Industrial.
I'm a muck-levelist, I like to see things from the bottom.

"No matter where you go, you will find stupid people."

LD

Ghostman- since you have horror up there twice, I would suggest taking it out of Genre and leaving it in Focus. (Or vice versa)

I am not convinced Magitech should be a category. If it is a future setting, Magitech is Futuristic. If it is in the past, then it is probably Steampunk.

I see fairy tale genre as in the weird genre- and if you are trying to cover it by saying that fairy tale has simple morality, that's already covered by one of your other matrices.

-
I'll make a note to myself to add in the other editions of Forgotten Realms. Thank you.

Ghostman

You know, these tables might be much more appropiate for the wiki than the forum here. If they were in the wiki, then people could simply edit them to fill in their setting's details. On the forum we either need someone to maintain the tables for everyone else, or allow them to be copy-pasted on new posts every time someone wants to edit/add something.
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

LD

Oops. I cross edited. I also added:
"I see fairy tale genre as in the weird genre- and if you are trying to cover it by saying that fairy tale has simple morality, that's already covered by one of your other matrices."

Well, perhaps they might be appropriate for the wiki, but first we'd have to get the categories solidified so that there is not a chaotic scramble of definition. Everyone will have to be limited to one choice per category.

Ghostman

Quote from: Light DragonI am not convinced Magitech should be a category. If it is a future setting, Magitech is Futuristic. If it is in the past, then it is probably Steampunk.

Magitech is not necessarily futuristic. It could easily be modern-like tech fused with magic, or something even less advanced.

You may be right that horror as a focus is redundant.
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

Superfluous Crow

Stone tools with animal spirits in them might be magitech?
Did we add this to a wiki or should we try and comment on the settings here?
The table is looking pretty good now btw. About fantasy strength: does it describe how important it is to the setting as a whole or to the setting from the settingmakers viewpoint? Where would you put World of Darkness where magic is not necessarily common, but seems common because it is the focus of the setting?
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

LD

I will edit the results into my second post if you post a filled out table up here with a few examples, Ghostman.

I think it would be worthwhile for it to catalogue about 15 systems- 7 famous systems and 8 from the forums here to give people a starting idea on how to quantify their settings on the wiki or in posts on the board here.

Still, I think Ghostman's table needs a little more hammering out before it is used. :)

Superfluous Crow

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowSo an idea for a "cleaner" matrix: genre out of one axis and type out of the other. So types would be factions (setting covered in cities, nations and/or controlled by powerful factions), apocalyptic (ruined worlds), pulp (exciting and dangerous worlds), oddity (campaigns with high to extreme levels of originality), good vs. Evil (very classical stuff)  

Genres could be: sci-fi (scientifically possible futures or alternate worlds), space opera (less serious sci-fi), fantasy (standard magical world), high fantasy (swords, gods & sorcery ad libitum), grim (alternate realistic world), alt. History (different timeline, but our world)
well, it's almost the same... but somewhat cleaner. perhaps.  I'll let you decide.

@LD. I realize we are quite far in the process, and i hate to be self-aggrandizing or anything like that, but don't you think this would work better all in all? (as the simple matrix). It got some early praise (okay, only from Phoenix) but i think it got lost in all the other messages.
Feel free to disagree if you are not of the same opinion.
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development