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Tinkering: Types of Worlds

Started by LD, May 25, 2009, 12:40:54 AM

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sparkletwist

I'm a bit late to the party, so if you don't want to change things around dramatically, that's fine-- but this system doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.

Star Wars is a "Bureaucracy"? That doesn't seem to be the focus in any of the movies. What if something is horror, with high magic? Or high magic in space like Spelljammer? Right now, Spelljammer and Firefly/Serenity are in the same box, despite being very, very different. I don't see how Shadowrun isn't "Dystopian," either-- some of these are subjective distinctions, I admit, but I think that the real problem here is that categories aren't a real matrix, because there's no real way to define what your categories are.

My suggestion, to try to fix it with a minimum of upheaval, is to make the rows correspond to the level of development of the civilization (akin to Ghostman's tech level column, GURPS Tech Level, etc.), and the columns correspond to the general tone of the setting (somewhat like your Style, Ghostman's Style and Morality columns, etc.)

I'm not sure yet whether it'd be better to have the magic level be part of the level of development, or encoded by some other means. In the case of "Fantasy," I think that "High Fantasy/Magic Focus" and "Low Fantasy/Might Focus" are both viable, important categories and probably should both be included. However, in higher levels of technological development, a note that the setting got there by means other than what we conventionally understand as technology might work better, somewhat like GURPS' "+" tech levels. Spelljammer could also benefit from this disambiguation, as it's something of a "Space adventure," but with a very different means of flying through space.

I suppose I'm a bit biased in making sure to include some notation for the alternate development of different development/technology levels, too, by my own setting Crystalstar, which I'd categorize generally as somewhat like pulp adventure/sci-fi, but based on crystal-based technomagery rather than conventional science. (or even conventional magic)

Just a few random thoughts, I guess. :D

Superfluous Crow

Good thoughts nonetheless.
Although i concur with our previous definitions of high fantasy and low fantasy, i would like to argue that only high fantasy is a necessary style. Something being high fantasy alludes to a specific stereotype. Saying that something is low fantasy is similar to stating that it isn't high fantasy.
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

Superfluous Crow

So an idea for a "cleaner" matrix: genre out of one axis and type out of the other. So types would be factions (setting covered in cities, nations and/or controlled by powerful factions), apocalyptic (ruined worlds), pulp (exciting and dangerous worlds), oddity (campaigns with high to extreme levels of originality), good vs. Evil (very classical stuff)  

Genres could be: sci-fi (scientifically possible futures or alternate worlds), space opera (less serious sci-fi), fantasy (standard magical world), high fantasy (swords, gods & sorcery ad libitum), grim (alternate realistic world), alt. History (different timeline, but our world)
well, it's almost the same... but somewhat cleaner. perhaps.  I'll let you decide.
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

Matt Larkin (author)

I think that's definitely closer to workable, CC. Of course we might specify more distinctions within sci-fi, as well. Or maybe hard sci-fi and space operas are broad enough?
Latest Release: Echoes of Angels

NEW site mattlarkin.net - author of the Skyfall Era and Relics of Requiem Books
incandescentphoenix.com - publishing, editing, web design

Superfluous Crow

Hmm, yeah, we just have to take into account we can't make infinitely long axes. Okay, one of them could be quite long, but the other is somewhat limited by page width.
But we should probably add/remove some types and genres before it's perfect.
I think hard sci-fi and space opera is good enough though for sci-fi distinctions.
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

Elemental_Elf


Superfluous Crow

Wouldn't that just be a subgroup of space opera?
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

Matt Larkin (author)

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowWouldn't that just be a subgroup of space opera?
I suppose. Most sci-fantasies are space operas, but you could have space opera without sci-fantasy, and even sci-fantasy without space.
Latest Release: Echoes of Angels

NEW site mattlarkin.net - author of the Skyfall Era and Relics of Requiem Books
incandescentphoenix.com - publishing, editing, web design

Superfluous Crow

hmm, let's go into that discussion when we have settings that necessitate it ^^
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

Ghostman

I've put some effort on better categorization. This should be able to cover just about everything discussed here so far, and thus might be bloated. The idea is that each heading (marked in red) corresponds to some aspect of a setting, while the types that fall under the heading describe how that setting handles said aspect. Feel free to critique and suggest improvements on this!

Fantasticity measures how abundant the various fantasy elements are within the setting and how much attention is placed on them.
* Mundane: There are no fantasy elements at all.
* Rare Fantasy: Fantasy elements are scarce and more of a backdrop than the focus, though they may take the spotlight occasionally.
* Common Fantasy: Fantasy elements are very common, perhaps even part of the everyday life of some characters. They are often the focus of stories.
* Absolute Fantasy: The setting is utterly fantastic.

Fantasy Strength measures how 'powerful' these elements are.
* Weak Fantasy: Fantasy elements present in the setting are ultimately of little consequence to the world at large. Things would not change much if they were removed.
* Medium Fantasy: Fantasy elements have significant influence on the setting; many things about society, technology etc. would be very different if they were removed.
* Strong Fantasy: The setting's internal structures rest heavily on the presence of one or more fantasy elements. Without them, the flavour of the setting might be drastically altered or the setting may even lose it's raison d'etre.

Technology refers to the flavour (not the same thing as level) of technology in the setting. A setting may have more than one type of tech flavour in it.
* No Tech: There is no technology at all.
* Primitive: Technology is comparable to the Stone Age.
* Ancient
* Medieval
* Early Modern
* Modern: From the near past to the near future.
* Hi-Tech: Technology clearly more advanced and complex than contemporary times. Speculative but still reasonably explainable.
* Super Tech: Extremely advanced and complex technology. Clarke's third law may apply.
* Steampunk: Technology takes an intentionally unrealistic flavour, with focus on weird steam-based inventions.
* Magitech: Magic and technology are blended, possibly to the point where they become indistinguishable.
* Other possible types: Biotech, Jules Vernean

Morality refers to how moral issues are vieved by the setting.
* Simplistic: Morality is presented as clear-cut, black and white, good vs evil - or by using some other comparably simple structure.
* Ambiguous: Morality is painted in shades of gray.
* Cynical: Morality is sidelined; characters are motivated only by their interests and base desires, even if they convince others (and/or themselves) to believe otherwise.

Focus refers to the things that the setting highlights over others. A setting may have more than one focus.
* Politics: The structures of power within and between societies, and the people who influence them.
* Intrigue: Complex plots and schemes, conspiracies, betrayal etc.
* Action: Danger and excitement.
* Horror: Focus on invoking suspence and dread.
* Other possible types: Drama, Mystery, Humor, Romance.

Style, aka here goes all the stuff I couldn't fit under other headings x. A setting may correspond to any number of these, or none...
* Survival
* Post-apocalyptic
* Weird
* Cinematic
* Superhero
* Fairy Tale
* Pulp
* Space Opera
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

Superfluous Crow

That looks very nice :D
Of course, it should be used as the second more detailed table and not the general overview one. So this one we can bloat all we want :p
Maybe a line on divinity or realism? or we could have tone/bleakness to account for dystopias and utopias?
Oh, and i love the word fantasticity now.
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

Matt Larkin (author)

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowOh, and i love the word fantasticity now.
Yeah. It's fantasticitytic.

I don't think "naive" is a good term for black-and-white morals because the term itself is pejorative. You may well feel those that believe moral absolutism are naive, but that doesn't mean we want to call a setting with traditional morality a "naive" category setting.
Latest Release: Echoes of Angels

NEW site mattlarkin.net - author of the Skyfall Era and Relics of Requiem Books
incandescentphoenix.com - publishing, editing, web design

Ghostman

Quote from: PhoenixI don't think "naive" is a good term for black-and-white morals
Alright, it is dubbed simplistic now.

Quote from: Cataclysmic CrowMaybe a line on divinity or realism?
Could you clarify what you mean by this?
¡ɟlǝs ǝnɹʇ ǝɥʇ ´ʍopɐɥS ɯɐ I

Paragon * (Paragon Rules) * Savage Age (Wiki) * Argyrian Empire [spoiler=Mother 2]

* You meet the New Age Retro Hippie
* The New Age Retro Hippie lost his temper!
* The New Age Retro Hippie's offense went up by 1!
* Ness attacks!
SMAAAASH!!
* 87 HP of damage to the New Age Retro Hippie!
* The New Age Retro Hippie turned back to normal!
YOU WON!
* Ness gained 160 xp.
[/spoiler]

Superfluous Crow

Divinity would be how the setting views the divine: do gods exist, do they grant powers, do people only believe in their ancestor spirits? (okay, the two first might be the most relevant)
Realism would be a heading where you could fit cinematic in, as well as simulationist (settings meant to depict alternative worlds with excessive amounts of detail), game-ish (settings that intentionally take distance to reality; erfworld for example, most old pc-game settings, and perhaps some cyberpunk settings), or realistic (the less extreme version of simulationist).
Currently...
Writing: Broken Verge v. 207
Reading: the Black Sea: a History by Charles King
Watching: Farscape and Arrested Development

Polycarp

I'm not sure I fully grasp the difference between Fantasticity and Fantasy Strength.  So "Weak Absolute" would be a world that is "utterly fantastic," but where fantasy is of little consequence to the rest of the world?  What about a "Strong Rare" situation in which the setting "rests heavily" on fantasy elements, but those elements are "scarce" and seldom leave the backdrop?

How does this work, exactly?
The Clockwork Jungle (wiki | thread)
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