Eschaton

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Heh, I meant the in-world narrators giving quotations (except for Prometheus) are unreliable--not me! In seriousness, I feel like I need to know the truth, before I can craft the beliefs. Also, some of these things--and it's hard to say how much and what until it's created--will be revealed.

Part of crafting the wiki is creating a setting Bible, a reference for me to use to keep everything internally consistent.

Cosmology[/url] page explains about Brahman and the Cythrawl. The Cythrawl is the force of oblivion. Anyone using magic has two choices: white magic (powered by prana, your own lifeforce) and black magic (powered by the Cythrawl). Because the Cythrawl is limitless and comes from outside, it gives you basically unlimited energy to drawn upon. But it corrupts the soul.

In the case of spirits, this means a pure spirit that draws repeatedly on the Cythrawl is eventually transformed into the tainted variety.

Archons become Devils
Angels become Demons
Seelie Fae become Unseelie Fae
Shades become Spectres (actually, in this case, a mortal soul that was tainted in life becomes a Spectre--a shade usually can't change)

So that duality is indeed really important. The only really complex category is the fae. In the other tiers, there's basically only one entry on each side.

Aeons, as discussed earlier with Freakin' Awesome Horse, are cosmic beings that kind of don't follow the normal rules.

Non-spirit entities (mortals and monsters) do not transform physically, although a corrupted soul affects their mental state just as it does a spirit.

[sparkletwist]

In seriousness, I feel like I need to know the truth, before I can craft the beliefs.

Cosmology[/url] page explains about Brahman and the Cythrawl. The Cythrawl is the force of oblivion. Anyone using magic has two choices: white magic (powered by prana, your own lifeforce) and black magic (powered by the Cythrawl). Because the Cythrawl is limitless and comes from outside, it gives you basically unlimited energy to drawn upon. But it corrupts the soul.[/quote]
Interesting.

Is there any way to undo this corruption, or are you essentially stuck with it? Or, actually, since the setting has reincarnation, and it corrupts the soul, does that mean it is permanent through the ages, not just in one's lifetime? It seems like eventually it would eventually corrupt everyone-- because it seems like magic use is based on biological ancestry, so it seems like as time went on every soul would be reincarnated in a magic-using body.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Interesting.

Is there any way to undo this corruption, or are you essentially stuck with it? Or, actually, since the setting has reincarnation, and it corrupts the soul, does that mean it is permanent through the ages, not just in one's lifetime? It seems like eventually it would eventually corrupt everyone-- because it seems like magic use is based on biological ancestry, so it seems like as time went on every soul would be reincarnated in a magic-using body.

Now we're getting into the deep metaphysics. Some of this is still stuff I'm trying to work through myself, so some answer may be preliminary. A soul tainted by the Cythrawl is not reincarnated until the taint has been burnt off (alternatively, if Unseelie can have children, then it would be reincarnated as Unseelie, not a human).

This gets into the idea of karma too, which many Westerns take to mean you get what you give, but really the word means "action." As in, the sum total of your actions must be paid for in your next life, determining where you are reincarnated (never paid for in this life). In the case of Eschaton, this karma infuses your soul (and I'm thinking that's what spirits feed on when draining souls). A tainted soul might be drawn into Tartarus and tormented until purified, or might become a spectre until its bad karma is paid out. At which point, the pure soul can reenter the paramatma and be reborn.

Reincarnation, even beyond that, is not random. Stronger souls are naturally going to be drawn into positions of power. Also, see the Web of Souls concept on the cosmology page. So not every soul would be born into a siddha bloodline and have the chance to use magic. Not everyone that can use magic will. Not everyone that does use magic will use black magic. A soul that achieves enlightenment will be removed from the cycle, and some may eventually be incarnated in higher (spirit) forms. Those that are tainted will most likely become spectres, as mentioned above, until they can reenter the paramatma, excising the Cythrawl from their soul. Chances are, such a soul has burned out a lot of its power, so it may spend its next life as a pauper or a goldfish.

Magic is genetic in the following sense (this may be subject to change based on new ideas about fae possessing, rather than physically existing on earth): Human beings don't have magical powers. However, some fae can take human form, even on the chromosomal level. Should they breed with humans, some part of their essence is passed on, even though the child will be physically human. This essence continues (sometimes dormant) for unlimited generations--these are the siddha. The Vates Church (the Inquisitors, specifically) thus trace siddha bloodlines and wipe them out, and they have been very successful at it. The numbers of siddha have been continually falling--which may further spur the efforts of some secret societies to bring the siddha to rulership.

[sparkletwist]

I've noticed you uploaded a lot of new pages lately. They're just stubs, but I did have some initial thoughts. First of all, I want to say, I think it's good that you've put in the MetaNotes showing what real cultures the people correspond to. While it's good that the world is immersive and whatnot, there are a lot of cultures in Eschaton, and honestly, sometimes it's difficult to keep them all straight. I'm sure I'll get better at that as I learn more, but that's just me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to have this problem-- so it's quite helpful.

Maybe you're going to add more depth, or maybe it's just too vast (you're trying to assign cultures to the whole world, so I can understand!) but I've noticed your cultural map is pretty "Eurocentric." Like, all of South and Southeast Asia is essentially assigned one culture, the Kapilites. If this isn't your area of interest, that's fine, but given the cultural depth you've assigned to Europe, it does seem a little bit hollow. It might be better to reduce your focus than to have this map of the whole world and have so much detail in some areas but such broad (unrealistically broad, in my opinion) strokes in the other.

I had some thoughts about the wiki technical problems you've been having, too, but I posted those on the relevant talk pages.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I've noticed you uploaded a lot of new pages lately. They're just stubs, but I did have some initial thoughts. First of all, I want to say, I think it's good that you've put in the MetaNotes showing what real cultures the people correspond to. While it's good that the world is immersive and whatnot, there are a lot of cultures in Eschaton, and honestly, sometimes it's difficult to keep them all straight. I'm sure I'll get better at that as I learn more, but that's just me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one to have this problem-- so it's quite helpful.

Maybe you're going to add more depth, or maybe it's just too vast (you're trying to assign cultures to the whole world, so I can understand!) but I've noticed your cultural map is pretty "Eurocentric." Like, all of South and Southeast Asia is essentially assigned one culture, the Kapilites. If this isn't your area of interest, that's fine, but given the cultural depth you've assigned to Europe, it does seem a little bit hollow. It might be better to reduce your focus than to have this map of the whole world and have so much detail in some areas but such broad (unrealistically broad, in my opinion) strokes in the other.[/quote]
Actually, I expect a significant portion of the story to take place in India (probably more than any other one location). I suppose I should explain myself a little, though. I started out knowing I had at most 27 supercultures to work with (and any number of subcultures). Each superculture was to represented by a phoenix avatar, which meant it had a corresponding aeon. There are 30 aeons, but 3 did not incarnate as phoenixes (I need Theletus, Sophia, and Caen for the story). I reserved 5 for the New World, though I may never detail it (and that was tough, I wanted like 9 for it).

That left me 22 supercultures for the Eastern hemisphere. I started with linguistic groups (so there were like 9 Indo-European branches, several Afro-Asiac, and so forth). I had too many cultures. After a long IM session with Snargash, I realized my goal was largely to represent (with the supercultures) the mythic backgrounds of various cultures in the time period in question. That meant that any culture which did not exist around 1st c BCE needed to be merged into another, and any culture where I did not have significant data points on their mythology needed to be merged (hence why I had spent almost a year collecting all that mythology data, most of which is now on the wiki--I scoured the internet and bought and read somewhere around 40 books on the subject to get all that).

In the case of Kapilites, I knew they would be arguably the most important culture in the story. So at the time in question, the areas represented (India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka) would have been largely the same culture. That leaves the other cultures I blended into it (Burmese, Thai, Vietnamese). The Burmese culture was heavily influenced by Indian mythology, so that was a no-brainer. Thai culture didn't really exist in any recognizable form, so I decided any indigenous people living their were genetic relatives of those in Burma. Vietnam was a hard choice, but I had found it very difficult to get sufficient mythological data on that culture, so I think I researched whether they were culturally and linguistically more similar to China or India, and decided they shared more with Burma and Thai, which I had made India.

You'll notice the "Greek" culture also includes Thracians, Dacians, Croatians, Albanians, and Illyrians, not all of which were even linguistically related. I could conceivably have merged in Italics, but because of world role Romans played at this time period, I felt it important to distinguish them culturally.

Limiting myself to 22 supercultures also makes the project slightly more manageable, but I should mention that each nation will still have its own subcultures, with slight variations in customs and language.

To some extent yes, though, Indo-European based cultures are naturally going to dominate, in part because they're often the ones easiest to find mythological info on. We have:

Indo-European: 8 (Celts; Germanics; Iranians; Indians; Anatolians; Italics; Balto-Slavs; Greek)
Asiatic: 4 (Korean; Japanese; Chinese; Central)
African: 4 (North; South & Central; East; West)
Semitic: 2 (Canaanite; Arabic)
Uralic: 1
Oceanic: 1
Australian: 1
Mesopotamian: 1

Anyway, even if it doesn't convince you, I hope it gives some insight into my reasoning.

[sparkletwist]

In the case of Kapilites, I knew they would be arguably the most important culture in the story. So at the time in question, the areas represented (India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka) would have been largely the same culture.

Anyway, even if it doesn't convince you, I hope it gives some insight into my reasoning.[/quote]
Yes, and I appreciate the insight. :) All of my stuff is just nitpicking, being pretty interested in South/Southeast Asia, myself.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Hmm, there is the issue of Dravidians (South Indians) who are in many ways a culturally distinct group, speaking non Indo-European languages and such. Of course, there was a lot of cultural intermixing with North Indians, so a case could be made that it all belongs to a broader group

geographic[/i] Vietnam. The question is then, are they more genetically related to the people to the west or to the north, prior to their conquest (which would naturally impose its influences on their subculture). The conquest by China happened in 111 BC, which means it was relatively recent (7th c IA, I believe) in the history of the setting. But I don't expect even the geographic location to impact the story I'm telling, so it's not a focus (I just can't totally ignore a neighboring country either--it at least needs a name and a basic history).

Much of the mythology developed after the setting's time period, yes. But I'm not interested in the context for the development of mythology, I'm creating a world in which the mythology is true (and has been true all along). So I don't see contextual development as an issue--it's an alternate history where Atlantis was real, magic exists, and cosmic beings are trying to devour souls. It doesn't bother me if similar historical patterns develop in spite of differences in developmental stages.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

So on the subject of the bestiary, I have been working on thinning it down a bit, and reclassifying some stuff. I'm interested in what you think.

I mentioned I decided to remove monopods and make ghouls corrupted field spirits.

I can see merging undines and sea spirits, making them a universal water spirit. And a complex entity. In turn, the Unseelie ones (rusalakas) could merge with unseelie sea spirits (telchines/marids).

I could possibly merge the idea of a ghost light with a death omen. I'm not sure how much sense a death omen makes as a corrupt marsh spirit, but I'm not even sure I want a marsh spirit. Of course I could make either or ghosts instead of fae, even though bean sidhe means fairy woman.

Mountain spirits and gnomes are still tempting to merge, though that creates an issue with the Unseelie cold spirits suddenly being conflated with goblins or having to look elsewhere for employment.

I could equate ogres and forest fiends, solving the last of the problems with one type of Seelie becoming two types of Unseelie. However, while both are cannibals, ogres and trolls are supposed to turn to stone in sunlight, so it made sense for them to come from gnomes, that have the same trait. But then so do goblins. <sigh>


Anyway, I'm thinking of eliminating the Hybrid and Metamorph fae categories.
I'm thinking that selkies can be undines possessing seals. I'm going to say a particular area between Scotland and the Orkney Isles is close to the underworld, and that area is rife with seals. So undines can possess them as a way into the mortal world.

Hellhounds and hellcats could possibly be imps possessing dogs or cats. The only problem is I'd still want them to exist in the underworld (Cerberus, Fenrir, etc.).

Cait Sith, Cu Sith could be attendant spirits possessing animals too.

A shedu could also be the natural form of an attendant spirit, I suppose.

Scorpion-men, minotaurs, fauns, centaurs, and vanaras can be mortal races living in the underworld. I really wanted to keep things human-only, but then I already called giants mortal races of the underworld. So maybe if these other creatures don't exist on Earth it's okay.

Tsuchigumo (spider-people) can be a type of therianthrope. Only really appeared in Japanese myth anyway, which was a problem for me.

A Nuckelavee can be a water horse variant. And a water horse can be a rusalaka (Unseelie undine) possessing a horse.

It still seems to me that beautiful sirens and hideous harpies represent a natural pair, not the same exact race, so I don't know what to do with them really. I also don't know where a unicorn/pegasus fits in, but it doesn't seem to be a monster, based on the way I defined monsters as weapons of destruction.

[sparkletwist]

I could possibly merge the idea of a ghost light with a death omen. I'm not sure how much sense a death omen makes as a corrupt marsh spirit, but I'm not even sure I want a marsh spirit. Of course I could make either or ghosts instead of fae, even though bean sidhe means fairy woman.

all[/i], all you have to worry about is not overwhelming the reader with too much of this stuff at any one particular time.

I could equate ogres and forest fiends, solving the last of the problems with one type of Seelie becoming two types of Unseelie. However, while both are cannibals, ogres and trolls are supposed to turn to stone in sunlight, so it made sense for them to come from gnomes, that have the same trait. But then so do goblins. <sigh>

Cait Sith, Cu Sith could be attendant spirits possessing animals too.[/quote]Tsuchigumo (spider-people) can be a type of therianthrope. Only really appeared in Japanese myth anyway, which was a problem for me.[/quote]I also don't know where a unicorn/pegasus fits in, but it doesn't seem to be a monster, based on the way I defined monsters as weapons of destruction.[/quote]
Something else possessing a horse, maybe?

Anyway, I hope this has been some help. I don't know your bestiary nearly as well as you do, nor am I as up on the taxonomy of mythological creatures, but I've tried to contribute. If there's any other pages, specifically, you'd like me to look at, please tell me, otherwise I'll probably just try to continue to advise on things in this thread, and start poking through the Eschaton category.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

The muse/attendant combination is neat idea that didn't occur to me.

I had originally kept undines and sea spirits separate because oceanids and freshwater were different in Gk myth, and because it seemed lake ladies should be separate from mermaids. But I'm leaning more toward the different varieties of water spirit idea now.

One thing I should note, I'm basically assuming all spirits are basically the same "species," (not actually a species at all) and what I'm describing are variants. Not only do mortals classify them, but they would classify themselves in the same way we classify ourselves culturally and ethnically.

Maybe the death omen should be a ghost. I've been somewhat fluid in interpreting the difference between a ghost, faerie, and demon (in mythology, not in the setting), so maybe it's okay. Hell, maybe the ghost light should be a ghost, too. If so, I could say the Marsh spirit is another kind of undine or forest spirit.

You know, at some point I had considered trolls and goblins being the same but dismissed it because of the size issue. I may have to reconsider. It would mean--because in myth there are so many "cannibal giants" I translated as ogre--that I would have to constantly explained which term meant which. But maybe ogre is a subspecies of giant goblin. Hmm.

It still seems to me that beautiful sirens and hideous harpies represent a natural pair, not the same exact race, so I don't know what to do with them really.

That's how it is now. But I'm trying to remove the "Hybrid" category, which means everything in it is becoming a mortal race, werebeast, or genius loci (or something else I haven't thought of). This was the one species that seemed so perfectly paired I didn't know that I wanted to break the pairing.

Something could be possessing a horse to create a unicorn, but it's the kind of thing that ought to exist in the Skysea (in the Underworld) too, which is the same problem I had with making hellhounds just possessed by imps.

If I think of specific questions, I'll let you know. The Eschaton wiki is arranged more-or-less hierarchically, such that any main-heading should lead you to a list of lesser headings. Meaning every page should be accessible without needing to following the mid-paragraph hyperlinks (which exist for encyclopedic clarity). So you can either pursue the top-level stuff all the way through and then delve down, or just pick an area that interests you and dig down. Browsing the Category page without reading the top-level stuff might lead to confusion, but maybe not, I don't know.

[LordVreeg]

[blockquote=bIRDMAN from the ashes]You know, at some point I had considered trolls and goblins being the same but dismissed it because of the size issue. I may have to reconsider. It would mean--because in myth there are so many "cannibal giants" I translated as ogre--that I would have to constantly explained which term meant which. But maybe ogre is a subspecies of giant goblin. Hmm[/blockquote]
i like this.  Divergent evolution, maybe.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Okay, then, I'll give a rundown of what the new simplified bestiary would look like with a description of each. In the case of spirits, I'll pair pure/corrupted variants together so it's easier to see.

Mortals
*Siddha - sorcerers
*Were-beasts
*Atlanteans (firbolg) - advanced humans
*Giants
*Undead
*Scorpion-men
*Vanara (monkey-men)
*Fauns/Serim (goat people)
*Centaurs
*Minotaurs

Monsters
Freakish animals created as weapons. Non-sentient.
*Chimera
*Griffins
*Mutants
*Sea Monsters

Spirits (Pure | Corrupt)
Primordials:
Archons | Devils

Primordials are non-corporeal entities with extreme power. Originally human, they achieved enlightenment with aid from Sophia and became (basically) gods. They are like super versions of cosmic beings.

It has occurred to me I could make Aeons Primordials, as they would better fit the name--first beings (doing so might mean including some other creatures in this category?). I could also make archons and devils cosmic beings (as it well describes their power), and make angels and demons something lesser (a fifth category?). Of course, the Primordials claim to be first beings, so maybe their ironic name works.

Cosmic Beings:
Angels | Demons
Aeons (don't fit well)

Basically lesser versions of Primordials. The word "angel" means messenger. So they serve as messengers of an archon or devil. They are also non-corporeal. Like Primordials, they can interact in the world and underworld only via possession.

Aeons do not possess and are, in fact, corporeal, and yet can also enter higher non-physical planes. They give me all kinds of problems ;)

Ghosts:
Shades | Spectres
Shades are untainted spirits unable to move on. They include Hungry Ghosts that crave a sustenance they can never find, phantoms that play out their deaths without a sense of reality, and death omens that lament the dying.

Spectres are tainted spirits that seek to harm the living. They include poltergeists that haunt places and cause mischief, ghost lights that lead people to their deaths, and wraiths that are sentient free-roaming beings of hatred.

Fae:

Animal Spirits | (none)

The universal spirit of bears, for example, Bear, is all bears everywhere, and part of it resides in werebears, too. Thoughts on this idea?


Dragons | Orms

Uncorrupt dragons are basically Eastern dragons (long dragons/nagas/tatsu), while the tainted ones (orms, sea serpents, basilisks, hydras, etc.) are the wicked Western dragons.


Genius Loci | Genius Loci
(Divided into subtypes)

Sylph (Air Elemental) | Storm Fiend (wanted a generic name, but don't love it)

Ephemeral, delicate-featured, winged spirits of air and storm.
Storm fiends may take form of birds, storm clouds, etc.

Gnome (Earth Elemental) | Goblin

Gnomes are gnarled stone and mountain spirits that mine, hoard treasure, craft, and turn to stone in sunlight. Their women (oreads) appear more like beautiful humans.
Goblins are even more gnarled and twisted than gnomes. A variety (ogres) grow to great height, but often at the price of their intelligence. Goblins eat people.

Salamander (Fire Elemental) | Afrit

Spirit of fire in form of a human, salamander, or smoke cloud.
Afrits are similar, but do not appear in salamander form. They live in the City of Brass.
*Somehow these seem boring compared to the other more complex elementals.

Undine (Water Elemental) | Marid/Rusalka

An undine is a spirit of water. Appears as a beautiful human, or sometimes a fish-human hybrid. They can possess animals such as seals or swans (spawning legends of selkies and swan maidens). They may live in undersea communities (as mermaids).
A rusalka loves to drown people. They may possess horses to do so (creating water horses). They may also take the form of beautiful people, fish, treasure, or other forms. They can also appear as mermaids and make war on their Seelie counterparts.

Field Spirit (Harvest Spirit) | Ghoul (Disease Spirit/Cannibal Spirit)

Field spirits can appear as beautiful people. They tend both natural pastures and cultivated fields.
*They may need additional forms or traits to be interesting.
Ghouls are cannibal spirits that eat the dead and spread disease. They possess those that practice unclean habits (such as cannibalism), granting the victim strength (and madness).

Forest Spirit (Dryad/Woodwose) | Forest Fiend (don't like the name)

Forest spirits are spirits of a wood, a tree, a marsh, or the like. Females appear as beautiful women, males as hairy wildmen. They are shy, but dangerous if angered.

Forest fiends are forest-dwelling cannibals, in twisted forms. They may make themselves look like plants, animals, or beautiful people to draw in victims.

Attendant Spirit | Imp

Attendant spirits (muses, etc.) bring health, prosperity, inspiration, or protection to civilization.
*What do they look like in their natural form, when not possessing someone to aid on the mortal world?
Imps are small twisted spirits that interact on the mortal world by possessing an animal and serving a sorcerer or playing tricks. Most are not strong enough to possess humans.

House Spirit | Bogie
House spirits are small beings that do chores around the house in exchange for treats.
Bogies are also small, though master shapeshifters. They feed on fear and cause mischief, torment, and nightmares.
*I'm uncertain how either of these interact with the mortal world. Other spirits possess something, but stories about these creatures make that seem a little off. They are both usually invisible and don't appear, so perhaps they are like ghosts in that way...Or maybe they possess small animals and shapeshift. I could also do something with the idea of changelings, I guess.



Unclassified (The Now Poor Homeless Creatures)

Succubus
A succubus (or an incubus in the case of a male) is a spirit of nightmares and lust. They seduce or rape sleepers, drawing away the victim's prana as a means of sustaining themselves and fueling their power. They also like to inflict horrific nightmares on their victims. They may appear as beautiful people or horrid hags.
*I guess this could be a kind of vampire...But I like the idea of a succubus possessing people


Siren | Harpy
Sirens are bird people that may lure people to their deaths with beautiful music (though this is usually inadvertent)
Harpies are hideous bird people with wings dipped in blood that slaughter.

Shedu
A bull with a human head that serves as a temple guardian. They may have wings. Always tell the truth.

Cait Sith | Hellcat
Mischievous faerie cats.
Destructive monster cats that wreck havoc.

Cu Sith | Hellhound
Faerie hounds.
Fiery guardians of Tartarus.

Unicorn/Pegasus/Kirin/Similar creatures
Usually noble, magical creatures of the underworld

[sparkletwist]

It seems like you've put a lot of thought into this, and, in a general sense, I like what you've done. It seems to have a remarkable coherence to it considering the huge number of overlapping and varying mythologies you're trying to make fit together in a logical fashion. So, I do have to say that I like the general gist of it, regardless of any criticisms I may have of specific aspects of the way you've organized it.

Animal Spirits | (none)

The universal spirit of bears, for example, Bear, is all bears everywhere, and part of it resides in werebears, too. Thoughts on this idea?

House spirits are small beings that do chores around the house in exchange for treats.
Bogies are also small, though master shapeshifters. They feed on fear and cause mischief, torment, and nightmares.
*I'm uncertain how either of these interact with the mortal world. Other spirits possess something, but stories about these creatures make that seem a little off.[/quote]Shedu
A bull with a human head that serves as a temple guardian. They may have wings. Always tell the truth.[/quote]Cait Sith | Hellcat
Mischievous faerie cats.
Destructive monster cats that wreck havoc.[/quote]
Provided you feel like reworking animal spirits into something more concrete (see my comments up there), these as well as Cu Sith/Hellhounds and maybe even unicorns etc. might be able to fit in there. Just a thought, anyway. :)

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Some good things to think about now. Aeons were intended to be less powerful than Primordials (hence why I had put them in the next stage down, cosmic beings), so calling them elder gods (while technically true) could create a misconception of their level of power. Indeed, I have been thinking that perhaps they are not spirits at all but another kind of being entirely. I need to think about how I want to define the concept of "spirits" again.

This category seems sort of weird, as there is no corrupted version and it seems pretty vague.

Perhaps they're more or less ephemeral, and they don't have any set appearance.[/quote]
I kind of said that originally, but now I'm thinking that fae and ghosts have no substances in the mortal world, but are completely physical in the underworld. Actually, I'm thinking maybe no spirit will have substance in the physical world--aeons could be something else. It screws up dragons, though.

Inanimate object idea works pretty well, actually. Lot of that in Japanese mythology.

I believe I had mostly folded love spirits into muses, but I could pull them back out to create love spirits.

On the shedu/minotaur, that was how it was before this attempt at revision, actually ;)

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I think then, the route I'll go is to remove the Animal Spirits entirely. I can come up with another explanation from were-beasts without too much trouble.

[ooc]Is there a way on the wiki to see what pages link to a page. So if I remove a page, I can easily find all the pages that need rewriting for it?[/ooc]

Love spirits provide the right match for succubi.

I can say faerie dogs/hell hounds, unicorns, etc. are monsters. I would then change the definition of monster to be slightly different (otherworldly animals not found on Earth, maybe). Monsters are not spirits, so I couldn't have the corrupt/pure dichotomy (good in some cases, bad in the cases of faerie dogs/hellhounds). Really it means I'll recombine the dogs back into a single creature and say it takes on varying traits (color, etc.) based on its master and mission. The plus side, is monsters can physically exist on Earth.

So I'd like to define Spirits, then, as non-material beings. Fae and ghosts have physical forms in the underworld, while Primordials and cosmic beings have none at all. As I mentioned previously, Spirits are the only beings which have pure/corrupted natures.

Aeons, as physical beings, will need to go in a new category. I'm considering the name Primordials should be applied to this category which might be more like the Greek Protogenoi (primeval beings born at the same time as the universe).

This would actually leave my biggest remaining question as what to do with dragons. Dragons, mythologically, are water elemental creatures (particular Eastern ones), so it made sense to call them fae (nature spirits). Dragons, I think, need to be material beings, and capable of existing on Earth as well as their homes in the underworld. Also, taking away their pure/corrupt dichotomy is not really desirable, as I feel like it explains the disparity in appearance and character between Eastern and Western dragons.

Saying dragons were fae allowed me to say the siddha are the descendants of fae and allow it to include dragons, nymphs, succubi, and so forth. Now, I'm not so sure where siddha will come from, though I'm sure I still want it involve fae. If fae can interact with mortals only through possession, perhaps a fae that possesses a human and breeds can transfer some aspect of this power. Perhaps it's something involving changelings. I know I see it as majorly important that it can be transmitted by bloodlines.

However, Indian myth mentions a few categories where a naga woman bears the child of a human man. Redefining dragons may make this more difficult, and I had intended to use one of those characters.


On the shedu: I have considered that this may represent the true form of some attendant spirits. Perhaps they have vastly varied forms.