[Forum Philosophy] #1 - The Cost of Magic

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Week 1
[note=Got an Topic Idea?]Send me a PM. Remember, we are discussing any topic relating to world design (but not system design), so fire away.[/note]
[ic=Philosophy Archive]
Week 1 - The Cost of Magic
Week 2 - Villains
Week 3 - Genre Conventions
Week 4 - Design Method
Week 5 - Characters
Week 6 - Theme
Week 7 - PCs in the World
Week 8 -  Politics
Week 9 - Government
Week 10 - Alignment
Week 11 - Magic Items
Week 12 - Philosophy
[/ic]

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Week 1 (August 1st, 2009)
The Cost of Magic

Any magic system has to have some kind of cost for the magic, some balancing factor that prevents it from solving every problem. The more powerful the magic, usually the higher the price the wielder must pay.

In video games, these costs are often some kind of magic points which refill over time or when one drinks blue potions. In a setting designed for written stories, this motif works less well. One wants a mechanic to balance magic without the reader saying, yeah old Galdalf just out of mana bar.

So what makes a good cost for magic? What are the most original you've seen used in games or fiction? What do you use?

For those interested, here's a podcast in which Brandon Sanderson, Howard Taylor, and Dan Wells discuss the idea.

[Tangential]

I haven't the time to type my response. But i wanted to gloat about being present at that podcast and discussing the issue with Brandon and Mr. Taylor afterward. When I return, I'll share my thoughts and shed light on some clarifications I asked them.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I haven't the time to type my response. But i wanted to gloat about being present at that podcast and discussing the issue with Brandon and Mr. Taylor afterward. When I return, I'll share my thoughts and shed light on some clarifications I asked them.

Exciting! But teasing is out of bounds. You are now morally obligated to share. :rambo:

[sparkletwist]

What do you use?

I guess Crystalstar kind of solves the problem easily and cheats a bit, because the "magic" is all item-based and essentially technological (sort of), so it's all based on physical things. If you don't have the right crystals, you can't do whatever it is.

[Acrimone]

Yes, Reagents and Components (when actually used) do tend to balance things out nicely.

The problem, of course, is that in an RPG (meaning a setting for playing, rather than for writing) you need the mages to be able to *do something* in pretty much every encounter.  You don't want them to feel totally helpless, because that's not fun for their players.

The two options I've used are (1) allowing Mages to burn their hit points to cast more spells (always fun), and (2) allowing mages to develop, albeit at a slower pace, some degree of melee skill so they can grab a longsword and go kick some ass, a la Gandalf (to continue the previous metaphor).

I'm also a big fan of "social" control: Dragonlance did this extremely well with the Council and the Towers of High Sorcery and all that (until Raistlin told them all to take a long walk off a short parapet).  I use the Wizard's College in Calisenthe, and I use it pretty harshly.  I always make sure my magic-using players understand what they are getting into before I let them take the class.

(This is a Rolemaster thing, but I also charge background points for taking a spellcasting class; these are precious and rare points that are only available at character creation which could otherwise give people some pretty sweet things to work with, including huge stat bonuses and special abilities.)

Good topic!  I approve.  I can't wait to hear what everyone else says.

[Superfluous Crow]

So first off my list:
Maruts: inborn magic with little or no control; can burn you up.
Noctomancy: You can only use it while asleep
Resonance: Slooow. Also, they have a crippled hand and need to prepare most of their things as devices. (this hasn't been revised yet)
Immanent Word: you have to scribe things
Deathtellers: Very specific powers and severe psychic trauma.
Choirs: Can only have two effects running at once and strain on their body.
Reification/demonology: expensive, dangerous, and risks of short-time possessions and altered personality.

These are mostly on the fluff-level as of yet.
Still, i like limitations that do not involve eventual burnout. Weaker powers on par with natural abilities or a limited use of powers so you'll have to choose which to use.

The coolest limit i can remember was from China Mievilles Iron Council. Here the monks of the Hidden Word can gain access to a secret by forgetting something about themselves.  The monk they meet do not know his gender, and as they continue with him as their guide he starts fading away as he forgets more and more of himself. In turn he can know many things, including secret passageways which makes them able to travel at amazing speeds.

[Ghostman]

The problem, of course, is that in an RPG (meaning a setting for playing, rather than for writing) you need the mages to be able to *do something* in pretty much every encounter.  You don't want them to feel totally helpless, because that's not fun for their players.

This is assuming that:

A) Combat encounters are frequent and essential parts of the RPG rather than the odd event necessitated by plot,

and

B) Being a magic user is an option available to Player Characters.

I could easily imagine a sword & sorcery -themed RPG where magic is akin to devil worship and strictly for NPCs only. I could also see a game played as intrigue/detective story, with very little to no combat; a magic user PC might be "helpless" but also the one with the best abilites to discover who murdered the baron...

A system for handling the "cost" of magic that works well with one RPG might not be appropiate for another RPG. A whole lot depends on what kind of role magic users are intended to play in the setting, and what kind of roles players are intended to play.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

I don't see material components as cheating at all. They provide a concrete and understandable method of managing power.

In Mistborn, those capable of using allomancy do so by ingesting trace amounts of various metals. Depending on the type of metal they ingest, they can burn away the metal to use a magic power. The more they use the power, the faster the metal burns up. Some metals, like tin are fairly readily available, though they still have to be prepared and so they can run out. Others are much more valuable.

I'm simplifying what's actually a very elegant system that's won a lot of praise.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

A system for handling the "cost" of magic that works well with one RPG might not be appropiate for another RPG. A whole lot depends on what kind of role magic users are intended to play in the setting, and what kind of roles players are intended to play.

This is a good point. But almost every really popular fiction setting has spawned its own RPG, whether fanfic, Steve Jackson, or even WotC-sponsored. I assume most try to capture the flavor of the magic system, while balancing for any type of campaign. Something else to think about.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Another interesting mechanic is the idea of aging. Brandon mentions it appeared in some story (I don't know which), and it is the main mechanic in the Riddle of Steel.

I like it's elegance. It feels like a real price, while at the same time a mage that needs power can have all he wants if he's willing to pay. Of course, it's been done, so I'd want something like that, but not the same.

[Superfluous Crow]

I'm not really a fan of aging. In most games it is not as much of a deterrent. Also, different races have significant advantages if they are long-lived or immortal.
A limiter i prefer in many ways (meta-game-wise) is the one where you have to pick between your powers; you can only have a certain number active at any one time. So if you want to be on the offensive you have to let go of protective powers and so on.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

"Costs" for magic always tend to bug me.  It's too much like the need of a fuel source, which, unless magic is being used as an overt technology/science substitute, tends to dilute its feeling of non-science and makes me feel that the middleman should be eliminated to make it be science.  Plus whenever the resource-management angle is mentioned in some form it just comes up as an obstacle for obstacles' sake, nothing else behind the idea.

On the other paw there's the "cost" of being hard to learn.  I prefer this method because then there's meaning behind someone not having the right magical level and/or ability: they're inexperienced or they didn't put in the hard work they should have or the story is about to take a new direction, as either the right magical method around the obstacle is sought or they think of a non-magical solution.

With this view someone might get the idea that I'd be okay with a resource cost if the cost had a meaning.  Corruption, for example: sacrificing people, magic deals with demons, etc.  The thing is I prefer what may seem as a hypocritical approach: that things act like laws of physics and have no moral component, morals occur only in our own thoughts.  So corruption and such things should never be tied to a physical force.

[Superfluous Crow]

But SCMP, what do you do when you have the top level magician with the Super-spell; What's going to keep him from using it all the time?
Or do you just turn down the power so that the Super-spell is fairly innocuous?

[Drizztrocks]

You don't have to have a cost. Just have some form of leveling up. For example, have a whole bunch of low powered spells that can be used indefinatly without damaging the game. Offer more of these, at slightly higher power, as the PCs level up.