[poll] Real Ultimate Evil

[Xathan]

I always wonder about this. What, in your setting, is epitome of absolute evil and depravity? Choose all that apply, but please explain why!

EDIT...so, yeah, it didn't let me do multiple options for some reason. Can someone edit that? If not, delete this thread, I'll start a new one.

[Lmns Crn]

Ultimate evil, as the Shadow has known for decades, lurks in the hearts of men.

In my setting, I'm working hard to stay away from objectively labeling anyone as evil/villains, or as good/heroes. Almost no one is completely blackhearted, and almost no one has their hands clean. It's a big mix, and it leads to come Byzantine politics in places, but I love the moral ambiguity.

Why subcontract out temptation to supernatural creatures when mortals can easily do it themselves and cut out the middleman?

[limetom]

Fiends and monsters are the ultimate source of evil in my campaign.

[Xeviat]

It's slightly complicated in my games. On the animistic side, "demon" is the title given to chaotic spiritual powers, who tend to be agressive and destructive (for instance, a CG deity is called a demon, and its worshipsers seek to aim its destruction at their enemies).

On the planar side of things, "devil" is the term given to creatures from the lower planes, Hell. Beyond that, there is a "far-realm"-esque realm where a formless entity exists who desires nothing short than the complete destruction of everything. So, this entity, who lacks a name (though its name was once known as "Daemononachrest"), is the one true evil of my setting, and his influence creates the creatures we know as "aberrations".

So ... I voted for Lovecraftian horrors.

[Epic Meepo]

I voted Other, mainly because I don't subscribe to the idea of "ultimate evil."  In my campaigns, there's no one place that people can point to and say, "Ah, ha!  There's where Evil came from and that's what it's like."

[Numinous]

I voted Evil gods, because the dead god of death and entropy has tainted most of the world and populated it with undead.  That may not be the ultimate evil, but it must be close. :P

[SA]

Other.

I generally agree with Meepo, and in some ways with Luminous.  Ultimately, I avoid such distinctions; sure, you could say that the Hellkind, with their incalculable propensity for agony and slaughter, are strong contendors for the spot, but Hell is on the other side of the multiverse, and for the most part they're locked safely away in the darkness.  Mortals, on the other hand, are out and about causing all kinds of nonsense with uber death-engines and world-altering dream-machines.  Naivete might better describe the cause of their destructive whims, but a lot can be said for naivete.  So all kinds of creatures in my campaign universe go around calling eachother "forces of pure and ultimate evil", but I tend to leave the question unanswered.

[CYMRO]

I chose other, because Undeath, the corruption of natural life and death balance, is the source of ultimate evil, even though it was brought into Altvogge by Orcus.

[Wix of Bel-Air]

Mine is more of the needless destruction that is to come by the Ancient Ahean of Golia. They think of only revenge and destruction, every life force in front of them being a target. They are the most Ultimate  -combining with their egos- very Evil.

[Túrin]

I voted humanoids for the same reason as LC, though I also subscribe to what Epic Meepo said. Heck, technically speaking there is no evil at all in my games (assuming they are played in Orden's Mysteries) because there is no alignment.
Túrin

[Lmns Crn]

Heck, technically speaking there is no evil at all in my games, because there is no alignment.

To split hairs just a little bit, I'd assert that the common usage definition of evil (i.e., apart from DnD) is distinctly different from the Alignment-obsessed DnD definition of Evil.

Consequently, I'd then assert that removal of alignment doesn't necessarily preclude the existence of evil, it just makes it much less of a force of nature unto itself.

[spoiler]'Sup, no-alignment buddy?[/spoiler]

[Túrin]

To split hairs just a little bit, I'd assert that the common usage definition of evil (i.e., apart from DnD) is distinctly different from the Alignment-obsessed DnD definition of Evil.

Actually, I agree, hence I used the word "technically". Like I said, in my world, as in yours, evil is found in the people that live in it. Demons and devils, though not officially banned, are unlikely to appear in my campaigns.

[spoiler]Alignment-less and lovin' it ;)[/spoiler]

[Xathan]

Well, one thing I've seen, and this was the main point...no one uses Demons and Devils as the pinnacle of evil anymore. Why is that?

(for all you nothing is ultimate evil...well, I know your reasons why not. :P)

[CYMRO]

Well, one thing I've seen, and this was the main point...no one uses Demons and Devils as the pinnacle of evil anymore. Why is that?

(for all you nothing is ultimate evil...well, I know your reasons why not. :P)

Because your average Lord of Hell or Duke of the Abyss is just misunderstood, that's all.
It's his environment, ya'know?

[Lmns Crn]

Well, one thing I've seen, and this was the main point...no one uses Demons and Devils as the pinnacle of evil anymore. Why is that?

It's played out. Cliché. Been done to death.

I'm serious here. It's been a staple of the fantasy genre since before that genre existed, it appears in real-world religions, and it's also universal enough to be laughed at.

Think about it. No matter how you describe and dress up fiends as serious Evil, everybody's got this persistent image in the back of their minds of a hooved guy in red pajamas, with a pitchfork, a tail, and hair that's on fire. You can't take that kind of an image seriously.