[Forum Philosophy] #16 War & Crime

[Matt Larkin (author)]

[note=Got an Topic Idea?]Send me a PM. Remember, we are discussing any topic relating to world design (but not system design), so fire away.[/note]
[ic=Philosophy Archive]
Week 1 - The Cost of Magic
Week 2 - Villains
Week 3 - Genre Conventions
Week 4 - Design Method
Week 5 - Characters
Week 6 - Theme
Week 7 - PCs in the World
Week 8 -  Politics
Week 9 - Government
Week 10 - Alignment
Week 11 - Magic Items
Week 12 - Philosophy
Week 13 - Races & Ethnicity
Week 14 - Tone
Week 15 - Content
Week 16 - War & Crime
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War & Crime
In speaking of setting design (not game mastering), what place do war and crime find in your setting? Where have you seen them done well? What has made you not like these things in other settings? Do you prefer war as a backdrop or a focus? Do you enjoy writing or reading about the criminal elemental, military structures, battles present or ancient, or the like?

Any other thoughts on the subject?

[Elemental_Elf]

It's very difficult to find a setting these days that doesn't include some sort of Thieves Guild. Personally, I think that's a good thing. It not only helps players get involved with a world more easily but it's just one more organization in the DM's toolbelt. However, Crime (especially theft of player owned items) should be used sparingly. No one likes getting their stuff stolen.

As for War... IMO, the only good way to run a war campaign is for the PCs to be a unit with a fair degree of autonomy. Nothing stifles a TTRPG session more than a NPC telling the PCs to do something, or else. Mercenaries often work best for the simple reason that the PCs then have an option of either joining the other side or simply walking away with few consequences.

In the background of a setting, war is always important. Settings where War is not omni-present in the backstory are settings that are probably devoid of Humanity, as humans are to war as bees are to honey. There's just no getting around it.

[Polycarp]

I feel that war works better as history than a present focus.  War is the movement of huge, inexorable forces - the might and machinery of states and people moving together.  Certainly no state worthy of the name would let a bunch of well-armed "adventurers" traipse about the wilderness when their talents could be used against the enemy.  If you're not in on the enterprise, you're a traitor, a coward, or useless.  Having a war on during the campaign often limits player choices.  This can be used to good effect in an individual campaign, but when designing a world I prefer to frame wars as either "in the past" or "in the recent past" for that reason.

[Nomadic]

Although it can be fun to have the players start a war on accident... heh

[Hibou]

As far as I'm concerned the best kind of war you can have in a setting is a Cold War-esque one, especially if it's a modern or futuristic setting. That feeling of having two major powers near you trying to outdo each other while rarely showing direct hostility (or being part of one of said powers) does a lot for a setting. It also provides a large base of villains and opportunities for shades of gray when people start going rogue on either side but aren't necessarily aligning with the opposing one.

[Polycarp]

As far as I'm concerned the best kind of war you can have in a setting is a Cold War-esque one, especially if it's a modern or futuristic setting. That feeling of having two major powers near you trying to outdo each other while rarely showing direct hostility (or being part of one of said powers) does a lot for a setting. It also provides a large base of villains and opportunities for shades of gray when people start going rogue on either side but aren't necessarily aligning with the opposing one.

Absolutely.  I feel that a good campaign world is like a well-stocked theater - you provide the stage, all the props, the sets, the costumes, stock characters, and even some sample plays and ideas for them - but this is all ultimately a backdrop for the further action of the players.  Tension, whether between nations, people, races, or any opposed groups, stocks the stage but doesn't too closely circumscribe what the players can do.

[Xeviat]

I have tried to give my setting a well placed shade of gray; I'm not a huge fan of super grim and gritty settings, but crime is definitely an aspect that needs to exist.

In my own setting, I'm using the classic theive's guild trope, but I'm trying to do it in a realistic way. My interpretation of the guild has been more like a mafia. It started out as a "people's guild" to ensure that the middle class's needs were met by the senate, but then it got involved in controling crime by owning the criminals. Now they influence politics and manage crime. The current owner thinks of himself as a necessary stain on the city, because without control then crime would run rampant.

As for war, many of the plots I've ran have involved impending war. War isn't upon the land yet, and the characters are fighting to ensure it doesn't come to war. I think it increases tension without involving the huge complexities of war.

I haven't played in many games that I didn't run, and those that did never dealt with war directly. I have read several novels that took place in a war. In one, the main character was a PoW and was forced to work for the other side. In the other, the main character was the leader of an elite force.

I definitely agree with E_E: if your players are in a war, then they should be a mostly autonomous unit, otherwise they feel that they don't have control.

[khyron1144]

In some ways most of my settings end up being about crime and/or war to some extent or another.

In Island City and Terra war is hovering around just over the horizon, about to happen.  In Terra it's also kind of the whole history of the stting, at least the important parts.

In Terra I was initially going to go the Discworld route in Terra Prima and have a legal and above-ground thieve's and assassins's guild.  I kind of rethought that after a while.

[Superfluous Crow]

I have tried to devise a way to implement a fantasy Cold War in my setting, but haven't found a satisfactory way to do it yet (or decided who should be the opponents).
I liked how Eberron had a great war as the primary background. The countries were no longer at war, yet there was definite tension between them. I think I'm going for something like that, with the campaign taking place a decade after the fall of an empire where the political status quo is still aligning.
 

[Ninja D!]

I've glanced at a couple of these threads but never felt I had anything worth contributing to them while they were still active. I think now may be my chance to fix that.

While I think war could make a great backdrop for a campaign and has potential to be a fun focus, that is only for a campaign. When I'm working on a setting, I prefer to set the backdrop of the world before current events and politics. I would rather establish at the beginning of a campaign that a war is brewing or that a war has been taking place of some time already. Crime, on the other hand, is something that I feel has a place pretty much anywhere. In the very least I like to see crime as a backdrop. Quite often, PCs may come into contact with the criminal element or even find work along those lines.

I think war was used as a decent backdrop recently in the game Dragon Age Origins. You're always aware that the Blight is coming and that the land is on the verge of civil war but only at certain points in the game are you forced to deal with it directly. Of course, if you want to complete that story you are forced to eventually deal with both of those things. In that same game, I was not too impressed with the portrayal of crime among dwarves. There seemed to be only one criminal organization, called the Carta and there seemed to be very little infighting or internal conflict. It seems that anywhere there is serious potential for criminal activity, there will probably be multiple forces, possibly even working against each other.

I can't say that I feel war or crime are really required for me to enjoy a story or game but they can certainly make it easier to find some kind of interesting conflict. The important thing is that the story stands out, even if it is only for being a well-executed cliche.

[Superfluous Crow]

As it has been said, it is probably a bad idea to center a setting around a war. If one does that, the setting will only ever revolve around war, deserting from war, averting war, fighting in a war, commanding an army in the war, defending a city in war, and so on and so on.
But on the other hand, you could have a minor war take place somewhere in your setting without detriment as long as it is not a world war.
Crime kinda has to be there unless you are going for an utopian tone. Thieves Guilds seem sort of artificial, but can work out if made well.