[Forum Philosophy] #17 - Names and Language

[Matt Larkin (author)]

[note=Got an Topic Idea?]Send me a PM. Remember, we are discussing any topic relating to world design (but not system design), so fire away.[/note]
[ic=Philosophy Archive]
Week 1 - The Cost of Magic
Week 2 - Villains
Week 3 - Genre Conventions
Week 4 - Design Method
Week 5 - Characters
Week 6 - Theme
Week 7 - PCs in the World
Week 8 -  Politics
Week 9 - Government
Week 10 - Alignment
Week 11 - Magic Items
Week 12 - Philosophy
Week 13 - Races & Ethnicity
Week 14 - Tone
Week 15 - Content
Week 16 - War & Crime
Week 17 - Names and Language
[/ic]

Names and Language
Do you create made-up languages for your setting? How about names? Do you pick at random, or put lots of thought into it? Is it better to go for nonsensical names, or do you use pig latin, alliteration, or wordplay, or do you prefer standard names? Would you rather use classical fantasy names like "The Haunted Woods" or the Harkannis Forest? Do you stray away from overly dramatical naming?

[Nomadic]

Full languages? No, I leave such things for limes named tom. Words? Yes. Honestly though I couldn't tell you my method for coming up with names as I don't know what it is myself. I just stop for a second and think and a name will float to the top of my brain and I'll scoop it out and paste it in.

[Kindling]

I think names are incredibly important in any work of fiction, but I don't limit myself to just one method.
I'll use english words (often obscure ones) that evoke the nature of the thing I want to name - a race called the Umbral Get, meaning, loosely, shadow-children
I'll merge english words into "kennings" - Growlside being a sector on the side of a city inhabited by lycanthropes, who are likely to communicate using growls
I'll create names based on modifications or "fantasisations" of existing words - I named a race of cat-people the Faelen, as a corruption of the word feline
And I'll just plain make things up that sound good - for example the god-queen known as the Mahathelur, or a nation called Alruyev

However, I think that regardless of how you arrive at the name, it is still a huge part of whatever you're describing. Imagine if you had a race of, essentially, orcs - big, brutal, warrior humanoids - but you called them something like shimmerfolk. Although all the characteristics of the shimmerfolk might be orcish, every time you refer to them you will be using the word shimmerfolk, which evokes a completely different kind of being. Unless that kind of dissonance is what you're aiming for (and even if it was, that begs the question of what purpose would the dissonance serve), your name is detracting from your creation.
Even an entirely invented word can have evocative connotations. For example, I mentioned the Mahathelur.. now I came up with that name off the top of my head, but even at a quick glance I can see one obvious connection between what the name could represent and what I did use it to represent: the name starts with the syllables "maha," just like the Indian royal title maharaja. The Mahathelur is a god-queen, so having a "royal" sounding name helps evoke that status.

[Matt Larkin (author)]

Good points Kindling.

Unrelated to the topic, but your post, the first time you wrote Mahathelur, I saw it with that connotation.

Maha means "great" and raja means "king" (or prince). I.e. basically a high king. In the same vein Mahatma Gandhi's title means "great soul." (atma is soul).

[Kindling]

Maybe the Mahathelur was something of a "concrete" example to use, as there is a direct parallel to be drawn in terms of meaning with a real-world word.

For something more abstract and phonetic maybe the name orc would be a good example. It's a short, sharp, guttural word; something primal. It could easily be an involuntary sound, the sort of gasp someone might make when punched in the stomach. As such, it strikes me as a perfect name for the kind of creature it represents.

[Ghostman]

Naming is something I struggle with a lot. In fact, I often find that I am being held back from developing my setting further because I can't come up with names for places and people.

[Hibou]

I've begun to use the Everchanging Book of Names pretty religiously. Some of the names of more notable bits from my settings such as "Haveneast" are random names that just pop into my head.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

Names halt me up all the time.  There are just some sounds I don't like and so I tend to have a limited phonetic vocabulary.

[Nomadic]

In regards to Kindlings response I would say my style is more abstract. I stick with a name because it sounds appropriate. I might find later on that it sounded appropriate because of a meaning I hadn't consciously noticed.

For example the Maeri from Mare Eternus. I stuck with the name since it evokes concepts of grace, water, purity, etc. I wanted the Maeri to come across as an enlightened race (like elves but without the magic). Only after did I notice that it sounds almost Native American and that adds a deeper meaning to what they are (a meaning I like).

[O Senhor Leetz]

while I think crafting functioning languages is a bit beyond and above, I do like to make it seem like there are. For example, I'll divide a setting into different cultural areas (if that's applicable), races, religions, what ever really. And to each one I assign maybe a dozen or so common sounds and letters as well as excluding a dozen or so sounds and letters. I'll also decide how many syllables (a range) for each language.

For example, I'll use the Vorr from Arga (a wild, beastial warrior race).

Yes- V, Kh, rr, Rh, o, i, ish, D, P, u
No- Ch, Th, ae, y, M, N, L, S,

Then I'll keep it between, let's say, 1 and 3 syllabels per word. So through that you have gutteral, savage sounding names, while avoiding some softer, more eloquent sounds. But that's just me, and it's a rough system.

[Lmns Crn]

I mostly do pretty much what Leetz has described. I have modeled my languages basic "sound collections" on real-world languages, for the most part.

I will occasionally assign specific meaning to certain words or word parts, also, and keep those meanings constant from one word to the next within a language. I did this especially with a mini internal project I started five years ago or so, where I was writing out example names in all my languages, along with pronunciations and meanings. Somewhere around here, I've got a glossary with the meanings of every syllable of elven languages I've ever written up (though this is not as impressive as it sounds; I've not used that many syllables).

Also, and this is really important, I actually say everything out loud, in various tempos and patterns of accented syllables. Seriously. I read all these nonsense words over and over, and if they don't blend in aurally with the rest of the language they belong to, or if they start sounding stupid*, I change them.

This way, I don't inadvertently name a city Dhaugba Wells or something.

[spoiler=*]This gives me an automatic advantage over plenty of real English words. Such as vehicle.

Vehicle. Vehicle, vehicle, vehicle.

Vehicle.  UGH[/spoiler]

[Elemental_Elf]

I've never understood how anyone can just make up words and use them in a setting, especially on a grand scale. It not only dilutes the importance of language but deprives the world builder of a valuable tool to showcase a world's history through the use of language.

Example, a ruin called Legno Vecchio is found near the village of Oddbjorn in the Forsøg Vale.

Look at what that alone tells us. The ruin is in no way related (at least linguistically) to the village nor to the people who have named the vale. This of course is a simplistic example but when done on a much larger scale, you can imply so much of a world's history; who owned what, who lived where, etc.

[SilvercatMoonpaw]

I've never understood how anyone can just make up words and use them in a setting...

The alternative is to use real words.  Which, if the person couldn't figure out don't go together made up, they might make the same mistake on.  And if they do catch on using real words can they choose the correct words to sound how they'd like.  Or do those words even exist?
And if you stick to words you know well enough not to make mistakes on your setting might get boring as every place name starts to sound too similar for vastly disparate cultures.
Given all that I think builders can be forgiven for deciding to just do what they feel like.

[Elemental_Elf]

The alternative is to use real words.  Which, if the person couldn't figure out don't go together made up, they might make the same mistake on.  And if they do catch on using real words can they choose the correct words to sound how they'd like.  Or do those words even exist?
And if you stick to words you know well enough not to make mistakes on your setting might get boring as every place name starts to sound too similar for vastly disparate cultures.
Given all that I think builders can be forgiven for deciding to just do what they feel like.

I wasn't referring to using an entire language and weaving it in, just using a given language ad hoc to exemplify that there ARE linguistic differences. If all the names you use are just made up, then you are much more likely to make everything in your setting feel the similar than if you started out with a firm linguistic base.

Heck, you don't even need to start out with a whole language (real or otherwise), just some basic principles that showcase the linguistic differences. For example, the Elven language does not use hard consonants (eg. something like 'Omathala') then that would contrast quite nicely with the Dwarven language that favors strong consonants and consonant-vowel pairings (e.g. something like Gakido), both of which would contrast with the human tongue that possesses a small number of consonants (like many Polynesian languages) and thus tends to use a lot of vowels and repeating consonants (e.g. heluhelu elikolani).

If you stick to your basic principles, then your world will feel so much more alive and real than if you had just made up words ad hoc.

[Nomadic]

I'd agree there. My named may be made up on the spot but when making names for one culture/language/etc I try to give them the same feel.