Magic in the Savage Age (WIP)

[Ghostman]

Magic is by far the biggest source of headaches for me with SA, so much so that I've been avoiding this topic like the plague. Little good has that done, so I guess I might as well start a thread here and hope that it'll help me make some progress.

Everything here is a WIP/brainstorming and may not actually appear at all in the setting

Just trying to find words to describe what the hell 'magic' means in the context of SA seems difficult enough. So I'll start with a list of broad generalizations that might not always hold true:

* Prefer subtle effects over anything flashy.
* Emphasis on mysticism. Even magic-users themselves may not understand how their craft really works.
* Great diversity of different forms of magic that do not appear to have anything in common.
* Forms of magic vary with geography. Magics of one land might be completely different from the magics of another land.
* Magic is rare, at least in the big picture.
* Magic users do not rule the world; they don't have the power to.

There is no one way to become a magic user, it all depends on the specific type of magic. Some might be innate talents you have to be born with (or fated with), others might require extensive training, or undergoing some kind of transformation.

[Ghostman]

[ooc]Here are three forms of magic on which I've found it easier to write than anything else so far. Note that there can be different and incompatible traditions within these forms, eg. different "schools" of Augury where one Augur might not be able to understand the work of another - because of different sacrificial animals used, different rituals, different underlying theology, etc.[/ooc]
Augury (a type of divination)
Augury is the occult art of examining the entrails of sacrificial animals. Unsurprisingly, it is a magic practiced by many priests. It is thought that successful divination via Augury hinges on proper performing of the sacrifice itself. No one will place any trust on an Augury following a botched ceremony. Even if every ritual was handled correctly, there still remains the task of exposing the entrails - itself a ritualistic procedure - and examining them for portents. All finds are carefully recorded, after which the Augur must spend a good amount of time consulting occult texts in order to unravel the cryptic meanings of his observations.

Oracles and Mediums (a type of divination)
Oracular seers and Mediums are people with close ties to the Spirit Realm. By putting themselves into trance (often accomplished by inhaling intoxicating fumes) they can commune with what they identify as deific entities, usually with the intent of learning specific information, especially concerning the future. The visions they experience tend to be very confusing and cryptic, and require careful interpretation. Even if properly interpreted these divinations are usually ambiguous, allowing for different ways that they may come true.

Evil Eye (a type of a curse)
The Evil Eye is a particularly notorious and feared form of magic. It is a glance that can curse one with ill fortune, powerty, sickness or even death. Mastered usually only by powerful magicians, there is a widespread belief in some countries that even ordinary people can sporadically manifest this power when stricken by strong emotions of envy, jealousy or lust, and looking at the persons or objects that are the cause of these emotions.

Certain types of people and animals are known to be particularly vulnerable to Evil Eye, such as pregnant women and gravid livestock, young children (especially those that are yet to be named), orphans, widows, and bastards.

It is believed that Evil Eye can be protected against by the means of an eye-shaped talisman or some other similar symbol; the focus of the malevolent gaze is drawn into this object and thereby off from it's would-be victim. A mirror can reflect an Evil Eye's gaze back to the person bearing it.

[ooc]I'm aware that the descriptions have their headlines worded in different forms - one being the name of a divinatory magic, another the titles of two types of seers, and a third that is basically a specific power. This may be a problem, but it's not easily overcome. The diversity of magic ensures that some things will need to be looked at from different points of view than others.[/ooc]
Some other forms of magic that I'm contemplating:

* Various ways of fortune telling (reading the palm, ensorcelled dice, etc)
* Divination by astrology
* Divination by observing omens
* Various ways of laying curses
* Hypnotism/mesmerism
* Mind reading
* Mixing magical herbs

I definitely want to include Alchemy too. Going to need a myriad different schools for it...

[Superfluous Crow]

I have not read much of Savage Age, but I'll try to help nonetheless.
What about magic associated with weather or the land? As you say, you don't want anything flashy, but you could always go for magic producing slow changes. I can imagine much magic associated with growth being useful to farming communities. At sea I can also imagine wind/weather witches to be very prized.
You could always have the magic have the same basic effect, but have the different cultures go about it differently. Augury might in one country be performed by reading entrails, but the immigrants claim that only observing natural omens can grant you any wisdom.
What about magic associated with life and death? I'm not thinking the undead necessarily, just "necromancers" capturing the last breath of the dying, or communing with a deceased spirit.
Some religions might claim to be able of performing miracles as well. Maybe gifted prophets are born on occassion. I remember tRoS had some rules for something like that... But that might imply more present gods than one wanted to.
Some kind of cult might also attempt some kind of physical transformation. Perhaps by imbibing some unholy alchemical concoction. Perhaps their deformations confer them unusual powers (an eye that can see gold or souls, or a stunted wing that makes them strangely lighter). Or maybe they just become something different than human.

By the way, cool to see the Evil Eye implemented :)    

[Ghostman]

What about magic associated with weather or the land? As you say, you don't want anything flashy, but you could always go for magic producing slow changes. I can imagine much magic associated with growth being useful to farming communities. At sea I can also imagine wind/weather witches to be very prized.

Certainly. Manipulating weather or other forces of nature has plenty of appeal. As a balancing factor they could be given a mind of their own, making it necessary to moderate the use of such magics.

You could always have the magic have the same basic effect, but have the different cultures go about it differently. Augury might in one country be performed by reading entrails, but the immigrants claim that only observing natural omens can grant you any wisdom.

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. Someone who is an Augur certainly might also have knowledge of some other similar divinations. The relative importance given to these things would be dependent on religions and culture.

What about magic associated with life and death? I'm not thinking the undead necessarily, just "necromancers" capturing the last breath of the dying, or communing with a deceased spirit.

Communing with ghosts of the dead is pretty much what necromancy classically means, isn't it? It is definitely something that fits the tone of the setting, and I might even redefine the mediums as the ones who talk with dead people.

Some religions might claim to be able of performing miracles as well. Maybe gifted prophets are born on occassion. I remember tRoS had some rules for something like that... But that might imply more present gods than one wanted to.

Ah, the prophets. I've thought about them, and far as I'm concerned they could be called "passive" magic users while oracles are "active". Visions simply come to them, whether they ask for them or not. As long as these are kept as vague and confusing as the visions of the oracles, there should be no concern for implications about divinities.

Some kind of cult might also attempt some kind of physical transformation. Perhaps by imbibing some unholy alchemical concoction. Perhaps their deformations confer them unusual powers (an eye that can see gold or souls, or a stunted wing that makes them strangely lighter). Or maybe they just become something different than human.

Food for thought. I forgot to mention in my initial post that I already have an order of magical warriors that blind themselves in order to awaken supernatural senses.

Thank you for these suggestions CC :)

[Kindling]

This is great stuff, I'm a big fan of the non-fireball-type magic.

An area that I've always thought of as fitting well with this kind of low-on-the-fireworks spellcasting is that of enhancements - etching runes on a sword to make it sharper, painting a warrior's face to make him not only more fearsome but also stronger in battle, chanting over a shield to strengthen it, et cetera. I think magical effects like these give players a tangible combat-applicable result to their spellcasting, but without anything over-the-top or flashy spoiling the mood of the game.

EDIT: one idea might be to have a magical discipline where through ritual preparation the spellcaster can bestow a battle-rage ability on someone as a buff. You can easily imagine the shaman (or equivalent) tracing the lines of power across the warrior's body in the blood of a sacrificed animal, and feeding him the magical concoction that transforms him into a slavering, blood-thirsty loon.

[LordVreeg]

This is great stuff, I'm a big fan of the non-fireball-type magic.

An area that I've always thought of as fitting well with this kind of low-on-the-fireworks spellcasting is that of enhancements - etching runes on a sword to make it sharper, painting a warrior's face to make him not only more fearsome but also stronger in battle, chanting over a shield to strengthen it, et cetera. I think magical effects like these give players a tangible combat-applicable result to their spellcasting, but without anything over-the-top or flashy spoiling the mood of the game.

Agreed.  Always a fan of this type of magic.

[Ghostman]

one idea might be to have a magical discipline where through ritual preparation the spellcaster can bestow a battle-rage ability on someone as a buff. You can easily imagine the shaman (or equivalent) tracing the lines of power across the warrior's body in the blood of a sacrificed animal, and feeding him the magical concoction that transforms him into a slavering, blood-thirsty loon.

I might treat berserkers as magic users, actually. Possibly involving the consumption of some drug mixed from poisons and herbs.

[Kindling]

A la Tooth of the Wolf :)
Very nice.

[Llum]

So you seem to have a LOT of different kinds of divination. Now this kinda goes in-line with the ancient days kinda feel Savage Age seems to deal in. Our ancestors were big with divining the future.

Now as this is magical, how are you going to handle it? Will it *always* say what is going to happen? Even if it's shrouded in cryptic meanings and other such things? Will it only divine what has a probable chance of happening?

Is whatever that is divined set in stone? Can "fate/destiny" be changed? If so, can anyone change it? Or only the special few? Do these divinations ever clash or come to opposite meanings?

I think these are some pretty important things to work out when dealing with any kind of prophecy/divination going on. Hopefully it helps.

[Ghostman]

Divination doesn't have to be foolproof. While divinations by legitimate magicians can indeed reveal truths about the future, these are practically never so clear and specific that one could easily try to break them. They tend to come true one way or another. In the event that a divination doesn't come true, then obviously it either was misinterpreted, or the diviner made some other error to begin with.

In other words, you may indeed know the future, but can't know that you're knowing it - you only know what has been predicted, which isn't the same thing as knowing that it's true knowledge. Know what I mean? :-p

[Llum]

Divination doesn't have to be foolproof. While divinations by legitimate magicians can indeed reveal truths about the future, these are practically never so clear and specific that one could easily try to break them. They tend to come true one way or another. In the event that a divination doesn't come true, then obviously it either was misinterpreted, or the diviner made some other error to begin with.

In other words, you may indeed know the future, but can't know that you're knowing it - you only know what has been predicted, which isn't the same thing as knowing that it's true knowledge. Know what I mean? :-p

So essentially, when it works what you predicted will happen no matter what. Unless it doesn't, then it turns out that you screwed up somehow and got the wrong prediction.

Alright, so how often does it come true? Eventually if a magician gets wrong predictions too often, they'd lose all credibility.

Is there a way to know if you've gotten a true prediction? Is it verifiable? If they aren't clear, are they so obtuse that the predictions are essentially useless? If not, couldn't someone figure out a few and then profit quite a bit from it?

Also, just to make sure, it *is* possible to break a prediction, if you know exactly what it means? This seems to make the whole divination thing less reliable, or can it be broken even if the person has no idea about the divination?

[Ghostman]

So essentially, when it works what you predicted will happen no matter what. Unless it doesn't, then it turns out that you screwed up somehow and got the wrong prediction.

As far as the people in the setting can tell, that's pretty much it.

Alright, so how often does it come true? Eventually if a magician gets wrong predictions too often, they'd lose all credibility.

Interpreting is essentially a matter of skill. The better you are at it, the more useful your predictions will be. If you're not very skillful then you might indeed end up discredited.

Is there a way to know if you've gotten a true prediction? Is it verifiable? If they aren't clear, are they so obtuse that the predictions are essentially useless? If not, couldn't someone figure out a few and then profit quite a bit from it?

There's no way to ever be 100% sure until you actually see the things come to pass. The best safeguard would be consulting several different seers and compare their words - but it's not like you can expect to find a skilled seer on every street corner...

In case of Augury specifically, there is the matter of the expense of the sacrificial offerings to consider. Not very cheap or simple to repeat a sacrifice over and over if the offer consisted of a white bull and a mated pair of flamengos, and it may go against religious sensibilities to make excess use of Augury (implying you don't trust the signs from the gods). With Astrology there's the matter of time and place - alignments of the stars and planets being right. Oracles might not be able to answer the same question more than once, there may be restricting taboos, etc.

In general, divination is good enough to be useful, with the caveat that putting too much trust on it could lead to ruin.

Also, just to make sure, it *is* possible to break a prediction, if you know exactly what it means? This seems to make the whole divination thing less reliable, or can it be broken even if the person has no idea about the divination?

I think it's best to not make an objective ruling on free will vs destiny. I like to throw around implications toward the latter, as it can build a nice atmosphere, but always keeping the door open for the former. That's why you shouldn't be sure about any divination until it's been proven or disproven by the course of history.

Finally, a few words of prophecy from the master of the art:
[ic]"Sad counsels, disloyal, cunning, Wicked advice, the Law will be betrayed: The people stirred, wild, quarrelsome, In borough as in town, the entire peace hated."
- Nostradamus[/ic]
Defying fate could be quite tough when it comes phrased like that...

[Lmns Crn]

I'm a bit amazed by how much our treatments of magic have in common with each other, and how much they differ in tone. We have your entire list in common...

* Prefer subtle effects over anything flashy.
* Emphasis on mysticism. Even magic-users themselves may not understand how their craft really works.
* Great diversity of different forms of magic that do not appear to have anything in common.
* Forms of magic vary with geography. Magics of one land might be completely different from the magics of another land.
* Magic is rare, at least in the big picture.
* Magic users do not rule the world; they don't have the power to.

...but you seem to have a heavy focus on signs, omens, and predictions, while that's something I stay away from, for the most part. (I've got one great future-foreknowledge idea, but I have no idea how to implement it in a way that doesn't screw up a game.)

How do you tell a true diviner from a charlatan? If a fortune-teller is accused of making stuff up, how do they defend against that charge?

[Ghostman]

There's no quick and easy way to tell if someone is a real diviner or a charlatan - there couldn't be many charlatans around if there was such a way, after all. I think diviners should be trusted based on their reputation alone. This does mean that a fortunate charlatan could keep on ripping off people for years while an unfortunate magician might be unfairly discredited. But that's life.

Then there are also high-profile diviners, such as legendary oracles, high priests, etc. Their legitimacy can hardly be questioned without serious evidence, due to the fame and respect afforded by the virtue of their positions. That doesn't mean they're expected to be infallible, just that hardly anyone would dare suggest they are fakes.

But I think we're getting a bit too caught up on seeing the future here. There's plenty more to divination than that. It can also be used to glean information about the past and present, information that might be difficult or impossible to obtain any other way.

Some examples on how I imagine divination could be used:

[ic=Example 1]You are being stalked by an assassin. Having barely survived many attempts on your life, you go to meet a seer and ask him to reveal the identity of this foe. The seer gives you an answer in the form of a riddle, the solving of which may enable you to figure out the name or some other identifying feature of the assassin.[/ic]
[ic=Example 2]You're traveling and arrive upon a fork on the road. One path leads south, another to the southeast. You pick the southerly route and continue on your way, but you begin to see ominous signs. These could be almost anything; the flight of birds, leaves falling from the trees, the shape of the clouds on the sky, the colour of pebbles on the bottom of a stream. You interprete these as ill omens pertaining to the direction you're going, so you turn back and trace your steps to the crossroads, taking the southeastern way. You'll never learn what sort of misfortune - if any - might have fallen upon you had you kept walking your initial path.[/ic]
[ic=Example 3]You have inherited a lavish manor and learn of rumours that there is a fabulous treasure hidden in a secret chamber in the large and mazelike cellar beneath. It is said to have been placed there by one of your great ancestors, but the secret of it's entrance has been long forgotten. Owing to your dire gambling addiction you've been gravely indebted, and now the debtors are demanding the manor as payment. You contact a necromancer to summon the spirit of your ancestor in order to learn the secret of the hidden treasury. The ghost does recognize you as his blood relative, but refuses to reveal his secret until you've avenged an old insult to his honour that has kept his soul restless for centuries.[/ic]

[Ghostman]

[ooc]This entry is a bit problematic because it describes a power belonging to a specific group of people. The two are so interwoven that I've found it impossible to write about one without describing also the other. This is also one of the exceptional cases where magic is common, although in a strictly regional manner, limited as it is to a particular island.[/ooc]
The Telepaths of Ios Island (a group of mind readers)

The tribe known as the Ioans are bearers of an occult talent which they call Telepathy. It is an innate ability to read and influence the thoughts of other people. Only those Ioans who are born of indigenous parents on the soil of Ios Island possess this talent. Lore of the tribe attributes their mind reading abilities to an ancient pact forged with a mysterious race of humanoid amphibians, whose fantastic kingdom of coral towers is said to lie on the very bottom of the sea. These creatures coupled with the Ioans' ancestors and taught them how to venerate the idol of the sea-god Ptomon, a strangely lifelike sculpture of pearly alabaster that squats augustly on a dais within a sanctum in the center of the island. Ioans believe that as long as they continue to revere this idol, their children will be blessed with the gift of Telepathy.

The vast majority of Ioan telepaths display only the faintest ability at mind reading: they sense little more than a vague trickle of emotions, and may with focus and effort hold a simple mental conversation with another telepath. A fair number of them are more powerful, being able to read surface thoughts and telepathically converse with any human being. They might also be able to play minor mind tricks, such as calming or intensifying another person's emotions, distracting their attention, or making them startle at imaginary sights, sounds or smells. The strongest and rarest individuals are capable of reading thoughts and emotions with clarity and looking deep into other people's memories, as well as imprinting into their minds thoughts that they may believe to be their own.

The reading of surface thoughts and emotions requires no action on the part of a Ioan telepath, and in fact cannot be suppressed without considerable conscious effort. To ask one to stop hearing your thoughts is like asking him to stop breathing your air. All other uses of their talent however demand intense mental concentration, and may be resisted by an unwilling target. If a telepath fails to conceal his attempts, the subject of his mental probing becomes intuitively aware of his identity.

Ioan telepathy always requires some sort of contact between a telepath and another person. Being in the same room or within similar distance and being aware of each other's presense is usually a minimum condition; strong telepaths might not need the other person to be aware of their presense though. Direct eye contact and engaging in conversation ease telepathy considerably, and greater degrees of intimacy (such as touch) amplify it further. Only in extraordinary cases, such as when two telepaths share a deep emotional bond, is it possible to sense or transmit any thoughts without any contact and over truly long distances (eg. beyond the visible horizon).