The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawLuminous Crayon always seems to hit thinks squarely on the blurred head.

There is a large problem with that, mainly the fact that nobody would use it.  Even if we successfully fixed every issue and made the perfect system, I wouldn't use it.  D&D is something people recognise and are drawn to, anything else is automatically seen as an imitaton, or just another ruleset.  It'd be nearly impossible to get players, and so therefore the project would largely be a waste of energy by all involved.

Sorry to be a pessimist, but everyone needs to see the grim reality of this before you all get carried away.

EDIT: Quoted for relevance

I'D use it. And that's good enough for me.

Quote from: Natural 20There is a large problem with that, mainly the fact that nobody would use it.  Even if we successfully fixed every issue and made the perfect system, I wouldn't use it.  D&D is something people recognise and are drawn to, anything else is automatically seen as an imitaton, or just another ruleset.  It'd be nearly impossible to get players, and so therefore the project would largely be a waste of energy by all involved.

Sorry to be a pessimist, but everyone needs to see the grim reality of this before you all get carried away.

I create settings that no one ever uses, not even me.  This is a hobby, it doesn't have to have any practical results, it just has to occupy our minds for X amount of time.

Well then, go for it.  I was just pointing out the truth ahead of time.

So, can I help?

Sure you can :P

Anyone can help.

Quote from: Golem011Good good. I know Witchhunt is, so that's me, you, him... who else? :)

Actually, I am well into creating  a system of using points to buy everything...

You are?

Quote from: Golem011You are?

I is.

Quote from: WitchHuntMagic can be balanced if it's not restricted to anyone. A system where anyone or anything can potentially use any level of magic is a balanced system, but not necessarily in a statistical way. There will still be distinctions between master warriors and unstoppable mages, and of course it will require study and training to master either side, but this way it is a character's fault (and maybe a bad DM's) if they fall behind in this way.

Understandably, a system that does this would be more like the core game, but with spellcasting in classes removed for a ruleset kind of like Incantations in UA. It could probably be built with a single core character class (maybe even a modified Expert), and a character just takes points or "levels" or something in combat techniques, skills, and magic strength, etc. while leaving the actual learning of spells to be "free" except for time required to learn and any backlash effects spells may have. At this point, however, the game is a far, far step from the d20 system and might as well be called something else.

Alot of this kind of drifts heavily from DnD. I agree incantations-wise, but the separation between classes should remain roughly as it is already. None of this "magic level" or "combat level" or "stealth level".
Rather, we could work it such that your "caster level" works more like a base attack bonus. +1/level for mages. +3/4 levels for dabblers. +1/2 levels for meat-brains.
Likewise, different caster classes would have unique abilities, either combat useful and warlock-esque or to modify incantations (mitigating drawbacks, shortening casting time, leadership status in group rituals, increased parameters, etc.). I think it might be best to use a mix of both.

Well, if we're going to go ahead and build a new system, we should probably start with some rough outlines for everything. "Classes"? Races? Monsters? Combat? Magic use? Equipment? Experience?

I think that the "class" system should be something like what I mentioned above, being something that sort of resembles the D&D Expert NPC class. You know, all-around decent capabilities and no limits on what talents you can learn (unless they're racial, regional, or supernatural limits). All characters could also possibly get so many points to buy abilities with when they start (this could include buying into more powerful races, combat powers, spell packs [probably only 2-4 minor spells per pack?], etc.)

Interested in what people have to say about this and other ideas.

QuoteAlot of this kind of drifts heavily from DnD. I agree incantations-wise, but the separation between classes should remain roughly as it is already. None of this "magic level" or "combat level" or "stealth level".

My intent in my original rambling was to say that we could have a system that basically just removed guaranteed spellcasting from any classes, and make it an optional power that any "normal" class could use. So we'd still have fighters, rogues, barbarians, rangers, paladins, monks, etc. Hell, we could even keep the Cleric and Druid classes and change how they work. But with the proposal of a new system, some of my early suggestions for it are kind of like the whole "magic level, stealth level" deal.

I'd say that maybe Beejazz is right in his thing about classes. Perhaps we could create four generic classes, one with no magery, one with dabbling (equal to poor BAB) one with average (half BAB) and one with full (full BAB.) Races could stay... about the same, although they may need some modification. Perhaps we could fiddle with the abilities (add a 7th, we need to decide what abilities affect casting) and yes, the point-buy stuff is cool. Experience can be used to achieve new levels where you gain new ability bonuses (but races and some other stuff you can't gain except at level 1)

Spells would come maybe in packs, but you could design new ones.

Quote from: WitchHuntWell, if we're going to go ahead and build a new system, we should probably start with some rough outlines for everything. "Classes"? Races? Monsters? Combat? Magic use? Equipment? Experience?

I think that the "class" system should be something like what I mentioned above, being something that sort of resembles the D&D Expert NPC class. You know, all-around decent capabilities and no limits on what talents you can learn (unless they're racial, regional, or supernatural limits). All characters could also possibly get so many points to buy abilities with when they start (this could include buying into more powerful races, combat powers, spell packs [probably only 2-4 minor spells per pack?], etc.)



Interested in what people have to say about this and other ideas.

My idea was classless, in more way than one. :D  :D
Your starting package of points can buy abilities, skills, feets, et.
From that point on you spend your XP on raising individual skills/etc.

Quote from: Golem011I'd say that maybe Beejazz is right in his thing about classes. Perhaps we could create four generic classes, one with no magery, one with dabbling (equal to poor BAB) one with average (half BAB) and one with full (full BAB.) Races could stay... about the same, although they may need some modification. Perhaps we could fiddle with the abilities (add a 7th, we need to decide what abilities affect casting) and yes, the point-buy stuff is cool. Experience can be used to achieve new levels where you gain new ability bonuses (but races and some other stuff you can't gain except at level 1)

Spells would come maybe in packs, but you could design new ones.

Well... I would expect more than generic classes for DnD, but for a homebrew I say let's cover all bases. I think maybe that there might be a sort of "tech tree" for spells. You need to know x number of low-level necromancies to get your first mid-level necromancy, and x number of mid-level necromancies to get their first high-level necromancy. We could even use ritual knowledge as a sort of treasure! I don't think spellcasting should rely on some new ability score. Incantaions are pretty straightforward research => execution... so intelligence. The spell-esque class features of druids, clerics, etc. should continue to go on a case-by-case basis.

Yeah, that'd be cool. But should each "section" of the character (hit points and attack skill, talents and powers, statistics, and whatever else we may call the groups) get individual points to spend to start, or should a character just get a pile of points to spend wherever they want? I think there should be minimum amounts spent in each section, but it should be kept pretty lenient.