The Campaign Builder's Guild

I like the idea of tech trees. It's starting to make this system sound like it'll be a mixture of d20, WoD, and Diablo II, which is cool to me.

Again, I'm leery of point-buy systems. Incantations can be cast direct from book, or can be kept in memory by those with slots (like spells-known slots) for it.

As someone that has previously created an entire game system, it is a lot of work.  And it is true that it is harder to sell (figuratively) homebrew rules to players than packaged stuff they know.  That said I did learn a lot from creating the system and running a long game (2 years every week) with it.

I considered trying to submit regular articles on building systems to the guide, but I do not presently have time.  Perhaps in the future.  I would like to do a revision of my system, using what I have learned.  Right now, my current gaming focus is on Kishar, for which I modified D&D mechanics.

On the subject, I'd say the magic system I created for Kishar (see Kishar: Mechanics in my sig) might actually be a way to start down the magic-fix road you describe.

I recommend all of you check out Buy the Numbers as a point-based d20 system that allows some of what you describe.  You'd still need to create your own magic system.

I also cannot recommend enough The Riddle of Steel, which is, in my opinion, the finest game system ever created.  Again, because it was published by a smaller company, I've had a harder time getting players to try it over D&D.  They know D&D, and often players don't want to try something new, even if it may very well be better.  But any future work I do on game design, and even houserules, is influenced by my knowledge of TRoS.

I might be willing to lend some help to the project, as I have time, depending on the direction it goes.  I kind of lean away from classes, especially the overly specialized classes in D&D which are restrictive.

A class system could look good, if executed properly, but I don't feel that is the case, here.

Well... classes should really reflect the setting. As I see it, you need classes (or class options) for all of the following.

COMBAT(melee)
COMBAT(ranged)
COMBAT(movement)
COMBAT(defense)
EXPERT(skirmish)
EXPERT(social)
EXPERT(stealth)
EXPERT(intel, tech, alchemy)
MAGIC(religious)
MAGIC(primal, natural)
MAGIC(study)
MAGIC(freaking evil)

I dunno... just some *general* guidelines. I would say a minimum of seven classes. I've got my own ideas about magic... like that it is everywhere for anyone who knows where to look. Like in the fairy tales, certain people just plain talk with animals. It isn't that they're druids or anything, it's just that the animal has something to say and the character listens. Y'know?

Are we doing classes or point-buy?  My advocacy for point-buy is that you can mix and match any aspect of the character you like without fiddling with things like multiclassing.  A single, generic "class" to build on would work because starting with that idea we'd have to design it to hold every concept.

I don't think it's possible to have a divide between different "classes" and stil have the nice complete flexibility of point-buy.  I think if we want to have a first step in this process we need to ask how flexible in mechanics we want this to be.

QuoteI recommend all of you check out Buy the Numbers as a point-based d20 system that allows some of what you describe. You'd still need to create your own magic system.

Thus, the beauty of the OGL, it can be so cherrypicked.

Buying spells and spell upgrades with XP is a great start.  From that point, damage types can be standardized, and so much can be parsed as extraneous..

Okay... I was all anti-point-buy, but a sacrifice of xp to learn spellcasting would be a cool way of doing things too. The problem, really is saves. Maybe a spellcaster could undergo a "transcendent ecstacy" that boosted saves?

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawAre we doing classes or point-buy?  My advocacy for point-buy is that you can mix and match any aspect of the character you like without fiddling with things like multiclassing.  A single, generic "class" to build on would work because starting with that idea we'd have to design it to hold every concept.

I don't think it's possible to have a divide between different "classes" and stil have the nice complete flexibility of point-buy.  I think if we want to have a first step in this process we need to ask how flexible in mechanics we want this to be.

I vote also for point buy.  Any flavor you like makes it sooo simple.

Flexible in which mechanics.


First idea:
My personal thought is to go to go to FIVE abilities:
STRENGTH
ACCURACY
AGILITY
WILLPOWER
PERCEPTION

Mental stats, as currently exist can go away.

SKILLS:
A few can be folded into others, new ones added to reflect a classless system.

FEATS:
Lots more as class abilities and spell types/classes become built of of them.

I am completely in favor of point buy. I like the five abilities CYMRO has proposed, since they leave room for a character's personality to reflect the player's more instead of having someone try to be someone they're not.

Quote from: WitchHuntI am completely in favor of point buy. I like the five abilities CYMRO has proposed, since they leave room for a character's personality to reflect the player's more instead of having someone try to be someone they're not.

Yay!!

I was also thinking about transmuting alignment into feats that gave auras(and vulnerabilities to certain famous spells).  This allows players to not have to be anything, if they do not choose to.  But if they do, they stink of it, no matter what the individual actions they commit.

I have Buy the Numbers, and in fact the only thing a really don't like about it is that it's a bit on the number-heavy side.  But it does allow one to do D&D in a sort of point-buy way.

Quote from: WitchHuntI am completely in favor of point buy. I like the five abilities CYMRO has proposed, since they leave room for a character's personality to reflect the player's more instead of having someone try to be someone they're not.

Whereas I suggest that being someone you're not is often half the fun. I'm me every day already.

Is it a matter of personal preference? Of course.

Quote from: CYMROMy personal thought is to go to go to FIVE abilities:
STRENGTH
ACCURACY
AGILITY
WILLPOWER
PERCEPTION

Mental stats, as currently exist can go away.

SKILLS:
A few can be folded into others, new ones added to reflect a classless system.

First up I'm not sure on your choice of stats.  "No mental stats" I really want to go for, since I'm always having a hard time not playing myself.  But the physical stats you give are odd:
STRENGTH: Understandable.
ACCURAY: How is this not AGILITY combined with PERCEPTION, which is what accuracy really is.
AGILITY: This name works only if you mean just mean dodging things, otherwise Dexterity still fits the idea of being both agile and having good manipulative abilities with the body.
Why no Constitution or Health score?
WILLPOWER: This could get tricky if you keep the Will saving throw with the same name.
PERCEPTION: Sounds fine.

In some instances it might be better to choose a different name for what you mean.  Also, you want to be careful what exactly you need to stat out.  One simple system I have does away with the need for coded stats because why do you need to know what they are unless they are actually having an effect, and which point you go and record them how you want them.

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpaw

Quote from: CYMROMy personal thought is to go to go to FIVE abilities:
STRENGTH
ACCURACY
AGILITY
WILLPOWER
PERCEPTION

Mental stats, as currently exist can go away.

SKILLS:
A few can be folded into others, new ones added to reflect a classless system.

First up I'm not sure on your choice of stats.  "No mental stats" I really want to go for, since I'm always having a hard time not playing myself.  But the physical stats you give are odd:
STRENGTH: Understandable.
ACCURAY: How is this not AGILITY combined with PERCEPTION, which is what accuracy really is.
AGILITY: This name works only if you mean just mean dodging things, otherwise Dexterity still fits the idea of being both agile and having good manipulative abilities with the body.
Why no Constitution or Health score?
WILLPOWER: This could get tricky if you keep the Will saving throw with the same name.
PERCEPTION: Sounds fine.

some of my ideas:
Accuracy = â,¬Å"to hitâ,¬Â factor
Agility = AC factor, though Dex works just as well
Perception = Spot, cetain save types(illusion comes to mind)
Strength = â,¬Å"damageâ,¬Â factor
Willpower = resistance to compulsions, charms, etc. Maybe even adding this modifier to damage output of certain spells...


Health can be bought as needed/wanted, thus making RPing a weakling possible.

Obviuosly this all needs a bit fine-tuning...

QuoteIn some instances it might be better to choose a different name for what you mean.  Also, you want to be careful what exactly you need to stat out.  One simple system I have does away with the need for coded stats because why do you need to know what they are unless they are actually having an effect, and which point you go and record them how you want them.

I agree, which is why I think mentals should go.  Sorry, LC.  I can RP a simpleton, and underdevelop my chracter's knowledge skills and such to reflect he is a moron.

This sounds awesome.  Count my vote on removing mental ability scores.

I too tried to design a point-buy based game system. Trust me, you really don't want to know what it looked like.