The Arena [News and Offical Disucssion]

Captain Obvious · November 01, 2006, 10:52:36 AM

oooh, dear. This is all getting really complicated.
Should we maybe just set it to no spells can be cast before combat? (i don't think that'd be a good idea, but it might make stuff simpler).
I also have to redo some of my characters (i forgot about the x5 one-use rule).
Maybe we should postpone the 6-way. I don't want to, but LC may be dropping out, there's the prep-time, silence and what else you can effect people with to work out, rules for animals and pets and stuff, and more.

mneme · November 01, 2006, 11:08:39 AM

The 5* rule is really important -- especially since it keeps 3rd-level scrolls out of range for 4th level combats.

Sorry for all the questions -- but what with !maeba winning his battles largely due to his dogs, etc, I figured they were worth asking

Xathan · November 01, 2006, 11:10:59 AM

the x5 cost for one use items rule is NOT an actual rule in the arena. I never said it was, and it isn't. Remember, once you use an item, it is used, and you must by new ones for the next battle.

You can cast an spell that falls into those guidelines, using Posideons version of #2. If it doesn't fit those guidelines, it's not allowed.

The more I think about it, the more I think it might be best to limit spells do those cast only on yourself or an ally. Thoughts?

QuoteQ's: so what about Contingency? Or Permenancy (it going without saying that xp spent on a spell still counts against your "weight class" -- so a mage with self-cast Permenancy spells would generally be one level below the weight class they qualified for)? Or even Shrink Item (which has a duration of days or weeks).

Good point. Everyone starts with enough exp to get them halfway to the next level, which can be spent on making scrolls, potions, permancy, etc.

With spellbooks, your ability to buy spells and put them in your book is limited primarily by your GP - the rolls don't need to be made.

Xathan · November 01, 2006, 11:12:28 AM

Quote from: mnemeThe 5* rule is really important -- especially since it keeps 3rd-level scrolls out of range for 4th level combats.

The only cap on buying items is no single item can cost more than 1/5th of your overall wealth.

Captain Obvious · November 01, 2006, 11:13:16 AM

What about this. Characters could start not in the arena (in the little hallway leading in) and you can get there whenever you want (to within some limit - say 10 min - although if anyone finds a way to use all 10 min, then then this rule needs to be changed). There is unlimited time for prep (this kind of worries me, though), but prep cannot include any summonings. Those must be done on the field. The only beings who can enter the arena are creatures that are bought pets, familiars/animal companions/mounts/etc, and cohorts (should the leadership feat even be allowed? should cohorts, but not followers be allowed?). I think the unlimited prep could be a bad idea, bu the potential for abuse is mitigated since one use things are more expensive, and you can't just summon a legion of allies and swamp the field since summons must be done in combat.

On further though, maybe we should get rid of prep time and pre-combat entirely.
The problem with one-use things, even when more expensive, is that they are still so cheap.
potion of bull's strength = 300x5 = 1,500gp
belt of giant strength +4 = 16,000gp (and takes up an item slot)
or
Oil of Greater magic weapon +5 = 3,000gp
+5 weapon = 50,000gp!
That's also for a weapon with no other abbilities. Using an oil to make a +5 weapon out of a +1 brilliant energy weapon (+5 equivalent) costs 3,000 + 50,000 = 52,000.
To actually make the same weapon would cost 200,000gp!

The prices just don't compare, meaning it is almost pointless, from a financial point of view to buy most items.

Poseptune · November 01, 2006, 11:14:26 AM

Quote from: ~#c7I also have to redo some of my characters (i forgot about the x5 one-use rule).

Maybe we should postpone the 6-way. I don't want to, but LC may be dropping out, there's the prep-time, silence and what else you can effect people with to work out, rules for animals and pets and stuff, and more.
[/quote]
On a lighter note:
What kind of terrain, and environments would people like to see for maps?
So far I have in the works:

Frozen field: A cold, ice and snow covered arena that will have an combatant shivering

Lava pool: Magically enhanced stone walkways and platforms are surrounded by a pool of bodding lava.

Platforms in the sky: Floating unconnected platforms over a bottomless pit.

Platforms in the sky2: Floating connected platforms over a bottomless pit.

Forested Floor: The arena is littered with trees and small brush.
[/ooc]

Captain Obvious · November 01, 2006, 11:17:08 AM

Quotethe x5 cost for one use items rule is NOT an actual rule in the arena. I never said it was, and it isn't. Remember, once you use an item, it is used, and you must by new ones for the next battle.

I believe this was originally said to be only once we started "official" matches, although there doesn't seem to be any sort of divider.
We also don't have a system set up for gaining money from fighting battles. Do we have to leave funds unspent in order to later replenish stuff, or is there a system in the works for this?

Captain Obvious · November 01, 2006, 11:22:06 AM

- Moving platforms

- Mechanus/factory style (moving gears and blast funaces could crush or be used as "weapons". conveyor belts creat interesting tacticts)

- maze

-tall walkways that you can leap from one to the other (possibly with high winds requiring balance check to not fall off of)

- ?

obviously, certain battlefields would be of advantage to certain characters. Maybe each battle you should roll fo a random arena unless combatants agree on one.

Poseptune · November 01, 2006, 11:22:09 AM

Quote from: Xathan, the Archbishop of CabbageThe more I think about it, the more I think it might be best to limit spells do those cast only on yourself or an ally. Thoughts?

How about limiting it to: There will be 30 minutes alloted after check for rituals (bindings etc..) or other long casting time spells at which time upto 2 spells may be cast on oneself or allies under the supervison of arena officials.

Poseptune · November 01, 2006, 11:31:48 AM

Quote from: ~#c7- maze

obviously, certain battlefields would be of advantage to certain characters. Maybe each battle you should roll fo a random arena unless combatants agree on one.
[/quote]

I was going to suggest this when I finished a few more maps.

Captain Obvious · November 01, 2006, 11:31:50 AM

QuoteHow about limiting it to: There will be 30 minutes alloted after check for rituals (bindings etc..) or other long casting time spells at which time upto 2 spells may be cast on oneself or allies under the supervison of arena officials.

I'll agree to that. Can they include summoning spells? How long is "long casting time"? i would vote for, they must be cast/used ,inimum 2 hours before the battle. (so hr/lvl or lvl 13+ 10min/lvl)

Poseptune · November 01, 2006, 11:46:17 AM

Quote from: ~#c7
Quote from: Xathan(These spells can only be cast on you or an ally, not a point in space)

I would go with this for the 30 minutes prior, so no summonings.

Long casting times would be casting times in minutes. I don't know of any legal spells off hand. This is so that if anybody has an ability that takes a few minutes they can use them, because in 5 rounds certain abilities or spells may be completely useless. The 30 minutes could also be extended to an hour or even 2. Would binders be limited to 2 bindings max? I am trying to suggest something that will cover a multitude of classes. I don't know every ability and spell out there. I would say potions could not be used during this time since they can be used without problem in the pre-combat rounds.

Captain Obvious · November 01, 2006, 12:47:15 PM

Quote from: Bacchus
Quote from: ~#c7
Quote from: Xathan(These spells can only be cast on you or an ally, not a point in space)

I got the impression from Xathan's post that you do your bindings/long lasting spells, then 30 min before the fight, you are checked to make sure that you have only legal things active. Then, in the time before the fight, you are allowed to cast a max of 2 more spells on yourself or an ally (no summons or potions seems like a good idea. scrolls are fair game). Then you enter the arena, and once round one starts, you can do whatever. Perhaps there should be a single prep round inside the arena, that can only be used for activating abbilities/making skill check (i.e. enter rage, intimidate to demoralize, wild shape, whatever floats your boat).

Is this what you meant Xathan?

QuoteHow long is "long casting time"? i would vote for, they must be cast/used ,minimum 2 hours before the battle. (so hr/lvl or lvl 13+ 10min/lvl)
I actually chage my vote for the defenition of this to be stuff measured in hours or greater (to remove using magic weapon, barkskin, shield of faith, etc. They are easy to abuse - i did it myself).

Darkxarth · November 01, 2006, 01:11:54 PM

Having read through all of this highly complicated and slightly confusing talk about pre-combat actions and spells, I have a few suggestions of my own.

-30 minutes of pre-arena spells (scrolls and potions are allowed, but outside spellcasters are not). No summoning, and an Arena official watches to make sure everything you're doing is legal.

-1 minute of pre-combat action before you enter the arena, basically in the little hallways before you get to the gate. Personal effects only. Mage Armor, Magic Weapon, etc. Also, to make things simple, perhaps no Invisibility-type spells or appearance changing effects before you enter the Arena? You want the crowd, at least, to know who you are.

-First round of the actual match is non-offensive. You can cast another buff spell (like Invisibility), summon a creature, cast spells like Silence, Wall of Iron, etc., drink a potion, Intimidate an opponent, stimulate the crowd, Wild Shape, and whatever related things I forgot.

Darkxarth · November 01, 2006, 04:00:48 PM

Well then, while we continue to discuss the pre-combat action rules. I'd like to declare that I have a Lv 16 Fighter almost ready for action. He will not fight mages of any kind. It's part of his backstory.

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The Arena [News and Offical Disucssion]

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