The Campaign Builder's Guild

All this talk of Dark Souls has me itching to take another stab at an irc game.  Assuming Dark Souls doesn't consume my life. . .

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
One thing I adore about this game is the level design.

I love how distinct a feel each zone has, and how the architecture and art reinforces it, from the crazy overcrowded corridors of the Undead Burg stuck together at weird angles, to the empty vastness of Anor Londo. They're two very different takes on "mostly deserted city" and it's awesome how much total variety is there.

The main thing that tripped me out is how much vertical space there is in the world's layout, and how many different locations are connected not by being "south" or "west" of each other, but stacked above or below. I had a lot of moments where I'd work through a long and difficult path to a location, find the shortcut back to somewhere familiar, and be surprised to find I was directly above or below where I started. The design is very clever about tangling zones and paths together so that one new ladder or elevator or unlocked door makes a great shortcut, but what really gets me is this heavily vertical model for zone interconnections which is pretty awesome. (What's Blighttown? Well it's under the Undead Burg, and it's even under the Depths under the Burg.... that has some implications.)

I also love stuff like being able to see Lost Izalith from the first part of the Tomb of the Giants, or being able to see the Duke's Archives from the top of Sen's Fortress... it's cool to have those glimpses, even when they're really subtle.

I completely agree. I've heard some people say they think the massive ladders and whatnot are cheap ways to connect certain sections but I think they're great. I've actually adopted that kind of transition between areas for Haveneast (along with transitions like those to/from Ariamis and the Abyss). The view from the Duke's Archives is great, when you're looking through the clouds and can kind of see the sprawling land of Lordran and all of the buildings below.

Quote from: Humabout
All this talk of Dark Souls has me itching to take another stab at an irc game.  Assuming Dark Souls doesn't consume my life. . .

It has consumed mine. I'd like to run a Dark Souls IRC game sometime, though... that'd be fun

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
One thing I adore about this game is the level design.

I love how distinct a feel each zone has, and how the architecture and art reinforces it, from the crazy overcrowded corridors of the Undead Burg stuck together at weird angles, to the empty vastness of Anor Londo. They're two very different takes on "mostly deserted city" and it's awesome how much total variety is there.

The main thing that tripped me out is how much vertical space there is in the world's layout, and how many different locations are connected not by being "south" or "west" of each other, but stacked above or below. I had a lot of moments where I'd work through a long and difficult path to a location, find the shortcut back to somewhere familiar, and be surprised to find I was directly above or below where I started. The design is very clever about tangling zones and paths together so that one new ladder or elevator or unlocked door makes a great shortcut, but what really gets me is this heavily vertical model for zone interconnections which is pretty awesome. (What's Blighttown? Well it's under the Undead Burg, and it's even under the Depths under the Burg.... that has some implications.)

I also love stuff like being able to see Lost Izalith from the first part of the Tomb of the Giants, or being able to see the Duke's Archives from the top of Sen's Fortress... it's cool to have those glimpses, even when they're really subtle.

Working with Raelifin on City of the Chosen really turned me on to what architecture and level design have to say about a setting, so I'm looking forward to being more mindful of that in Dark Souls (and Bioshock when I eventually play it).

Also, is there any sort of map that would help a person navigate these shortcuts and whatnot?  Esp. like an abstract map?  I wouldn't use it on my first playthrough, but I always have difficulty breaking out of the default path even when I know there is a shortcut that exists.

This is the only map of the game I know of and only shows a small part, but it looks incredible. Most of the game you will just discover by trial-and-error, and some areas, being both completely optional and well-hidden, might evade you for some time.

Man I wish I wasn't so desperately and brutally broke right now. Wanna fund this so bad.

I've played for about an hour so far, only died to the Asylum demon twice (once without weapons because I forgot how to roll).  Maybe half a dozen deaths total due to stupidity like not topping off my health and button mashing.

I do have a question though.  I'm playing as a Pyromancer since LC's comment about your flame growing with you charmed me enough to take it for a spin.  I haven't leveled up yet as I wasn't sure what stats I should be prioritizing?  I'll take advice and/or links to a "guide".  Quotes implying that I don't want a map, just an indication of what I should prioritize mechanically to avoid gimping my character.

Don't put any points in Resistance. It's the only terrible stat.

[spoiler=more stuff about stats]Vitality gives you more HP. Endurance gives you more stamina, and increases your equipment load. You move and roll differently depending whether you are under your max encumberance, under half your max encumberance, or under a quarter of your max encumberance.

You don't need Intelligence/Faith unless you want to eventually learn Sorcery/Miracles, respectively. Looking at the spells will tell you what the requirements are. (Pyromancy spells don't have stat requirements.) Attunement gives you more slots to equip spells in, but not every point coontributes. You don't need Strength/Dex beyond what you need for the prereqs of the weapons you want to wield, but almost all weapons scale and increase their damage along with your stats.

Class is not a thing, it just determines your starting equipment and starting attribute spread. Put points wherever you want to grow your character however you want. The only "rule" is that Resistance is terrible 100% of the time always.[/spoiler]

So here's my initial report from yesterdays deathfest:

Yes, I died a lot.  Part of this was because this was the first time playing this sort of weirdass third-person FPS hybrid with lots of melee (something FPS blows at).  Another part was that a lot of the "challenges" weren't so much difficult as just puzzles.  Once you realize how you are suppose to get through one, it's not terribly difficult.  The asylum demon is a great example of this.

As for game feel, so far it's great.  Very dark and kind of odd.  I hope I can get use to the weird (to me, anyway) interface pretty soon so I can really start enjoying this game.  For the record, I started with Warrior, because I like to hit things until they die.  I am torn between two-handing it or going sword and board.  How much better/worse is a shield than parrying?

Quote from: Numinous
I do have a question though.  I'm playing as a Pyromancer since LC's comment about your flame growing with you charmed me enough to take it for a spin.  I haven't leveled up yet as I wasn't sure what stats I should be prioritizing?  I'll take advice and/or links to a "guide".  Quotes implying that I don't want a map, just an indication of what I should prioritize mechanically to avoid gimping my character.

I recommend this for a pyro

[ic=The Vitality Build]

Starting Classes:
1st - Pyromancer
2nd - Bandit

Why: Pyromancers start at the lowest level possible with enough attunement slots and endurance to justify choosing them. They begin with a decent axe weapon, the fireball pyromancy, and they are the easiest to level up of the other classes.

I might also suggest Bandit, but only if you don't want to spend souls bothering with pyromancy - something I don't suggest for a build like this.

Weapon Options:
[Lightning or Chaos] Zweihander +5 (2handed)
[Lightning or Chaos] Claymore +5 (w/ Shield)
[Lightning or Chaos] Bastard Sword +5 (w/ Shield)
Ascended Flame +5

Spells:
Fireball
Combustion
Iron Flesh
Flash Sweat
Greater Combustion
*etc...

*note: Pretty much whatever pyromancy floats your boat at a given time.

Rings:
Havel's Ring
Wolf Ring
Ring of Favor and Protection
Cloranthy Ring

Stat Distribution:
Vit - 40 - Level this up after Str
Att - x
End - 40 - Level this up after Str
Str - 16
Dex - 10
Fai - x
Int - x
Res - x

How to Play: Level up your Str and Dex until the shown levels, and then equally distribute between End and Vit. Basically, you roll through your enemies with pyromancy or your weapon of choice. Your excess Vitality will let you take a few hits, but you need Endurance high so that you can wear the heavier armors and keep your poise up through those attacks. Your weapon choices are slightly limited, but they'll deal enough damage to carry you through at least one playthrough of the game.

40 is the best level to stop at when levelling up any stat, because there's essentially a softcap on your effective returns at that level. Basically, any levels put into a stat past level 40 will give minimal stat returns. When you begin reaching these levels, you should be getting close to the endgame of your first playthrough, or you need to invest more souls into levelling up your pyromancy flame or weapons/armor.

If you choose to make a Chaos weapon, you'll need 10 soft humanity - the humanity that can be lost if you die - available. Chaos weapons scale with your soft humanity. Lightning weapons don't scale at all, and are very effective on most enemies in the game, but there are a few enemies who are specifically weak to flame damage. If you can only choose one, though, then choose lightning.

This build has a bad reputation amongst online players, because even players with a distinct lack of skill can be efficient with this build. If you really don't care about people online, though, then this is a good starting build.
[/ic]

As for me I can't understand my characters:
I can do a backstab blindfolded with my warrior but have issues with the parry.
On the other hand my wanderer can parry like he was born for that, but I'm totally unable to make backstabs!!

Quote from: Humabout
So here's my initial report from yesterdays deathfest:

Yes, I died a lot.  Part of this was because this was the first time playing this sort of weirdass third-person FPS hybrid with lots of melee (something FPS blows at).  Another part was that a lot of the "challenges" weren't so much difficult as just puzzles.  Once you realize how you are suppose to get through one, it's not terribly difficult.  The asylum demon is a great example of this.

As for game feel, so far it's great.  Very dark and kind of odd.  I hope I can get use to the weird (to me, anyway) interface pretty soon so I can really start enjoying this game.  For the record, I started with Warrior, because I like to hit things until they die.  I am torn between two-handing it or going sword and board.  How much better/worse is a shield than parrying?

My understanding is that if you can parry, you should.  But if you're going to miss that parry and die, keep the shield.  At least that's how I'm doing it.

@BasnetI: Thank you for the tips.  I don't understand much of it, but the stat stuff is good to know.

So far, I've gotten the Taurus demon in ~3 hours total.  Lots of stupid dying to regular enemies just outside of the bonfire though.  Embarassing!

When you've got a shield that blocks 100% of physical damage, you can be really patient in fights. Mind your stamina (you have to drop the shield to let it regenerate at speed), but you can play as conservatively as you want and wait for openings.

Some enemies, though, it really helps to parry/riposte and create your own openings. You can do so with the same shield equipped.

I recommend practicing on some of the easier undead in the Burg/Parish, to get the hang of the timing down. Also, don't watch the weapon for your timing, watch the hand holding the weapon.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
Don't put any points in Resistance. It's the only terrible stat.

[spoiler=more stuff about stats]Vitality gives you more HP. Endurance gives you more stamina, and increases your equipment load. You move and roll differently depending whether you are under your max encumberance, under half your max encumberance, or under a quarter of your max encumberance.

You don't need Intelligence/Faith unless you want to eventually learn Sorcery/Miracles, respectively. Looking at the spells will tell you what the requirements are. (Pyromancy spells don't have stat requirements.) Attunement gives you more slots to equip spells in, but not every point coontributes. You don't need Strength/Dex beyond what you need for the prereqs of the weapons you want to wield, but almost all weapons scale and increase their damage along with your stats.

Class is not a thing, it just determines your starting equipment and starting attribute spread. Put points wherever you want to grow your character however you want. The only "rule" is that Resistance is terrible 100% of the time always.[/spoiler]

Things I want to add to this very informative post:

-18 points in Int/Faith will get you access to a variety of utility spells such as Cast Light, Fall Control, Repair, Homeward and Heal. More than this is only necessary if you want to use the really powerful spells (and having to put 30+ points in a spellcasting stat will make you weaker physically, which may or may not be a bad thing)

-If you're looking at just your raw defense stats when leveling, consider that for the early levels (probably until your 50s or so, can't remember exactly) a point in any stat will increase your defenses (essentially why Resistance is useless)

-Even though Resistance is terrible, the few extra points you might have due to a starting class value are not going to hamper you too much in your journeys

Quote from: Numinous

Quote from: Humabout
So here's my initial report from yesterdays deathfest:

Yes, I died a lot.  Part of this was because this was the first time playing this sort of weirdass third-person FPS hybrid with lots of melee (something FPS blows at).  Another part was that a lot of the "challenges" weren't so much difficult as just puzzles.  Once you realize how you are suppose to get through one, it's not terribly difficult.  The asylum demon is a great example of this.

As for game feel, so far it's great.  Very dark and kind of odd.  I hope I can get use to the weird (to me, anyway) interface pretty soon so I can really start enjoying this game.  For the record, I started with Warrior, because I like to hit things until they die.  I am torn between two-handing it or going sword and board.  How much better/worse is a shield than parrying?

My understanding is that if you can parry, you should.  But if you're going to miss that parry and die, keep the shield.  At least that's how I'm doing it.

@BasnetI: Thank you for the tips.  I don't understand much of it, but the stat stuff is good to know.

So far, I've gotten the Taurus demon in ~3 hours total.  Lots of stupid dying to regular enemies just outside of the bonfire though.  Embarassing!

Parrying is beneficial in that the critical strike that follows is more powerful than a backstab, and even if you don't strike following one it gives you a bit of time to back away or whatnot. You can parry more enemies than you'd think (try the Black Knights in the Burg, but DON'T try it on Havel :P). That being said, you can also dodge almost any attack in the game, so two-handing is also very viable, and your success with either style really just depends on your timing and what you're more comfortable with.

Comfort with fighting styles will change over time, too. When I started I was a turtle (shield up all the time, heavy armor) but now I often two-hand with low equip load for the maximum speed, and will drop my shield in favor of a talisman.

Basnetl's build is a good guide for a very survival-oriented character on your first playthrough. Keep in mind that if you're using pyromancy/faith/miracles for more than just a single buff or heal, you'll probably want enough Attunement to give you at least 4 spell slots (16 points). This is especially the case if you're using more than one kind of magic (Pyromancy/Miracles and Pyromancy/Sorcery are the easier combos) or if you're using any of the spells that are powerful enough to require two slots.

The first shield available that blocks 100% physical damage is either the Spider Shield (if you picked Bandit) or the Heater Shield (if you picked Warrior). The Heater is also available from the Undead Merchant in the Burg for 1000 souls.

Much of the value of particular starting classes is based on what gear you start with, but given the aforementioned ability to build whatever you want with any character class, even this doesn't matter much.

Level 87 now my most recent build. Darkwraith using Sunlight Blade/Wrath of the Gods/Dark Flame/Tranquil Walk of Peace along with a Chaos Great Scythe and a +15 Iaito. Dex/Faith build basically. I think of it as an ur-priest using the power of Gwyn and his kin (gonna get the Sunlight Spear eventually) against them.

Will post screenshots.

My god that's still greek to me!  I have finally reached another bonfire and am finally getting use to the interface for the game.  It's an awesome game.  I can't wait to get further into this.