The Campaign Builder's Guild

This is a thread specifically for the discussion of magic and magic wielding classes in Cebegia. Basically what we need to determine is the roles we want magic to play, and the cultural divisions (if any) that exist between them.

There has already been some discussion about druids primarily serving as the "priests" of the Totem Gods, and clerics serving as the "priests" of the imperial gods. What are the general thoughts about these roles?

There has also been discussion about paladins serving as the imperial knights. Is this idea liked?

What about the afore mentioned imperial restrictions on magic, such as imperial spell libraries, regulation of spell casting, and the role wizards play in the empire vs. those they play in the city-states. Not to mention the tatooed wizards that were briefly discussed. What direction are we headed with this?

Thus far there has been little mention of sorcerers, bards, and rangers. Are there any specific ideas pertaining to these classes?

What other ideas do people have about magic in the setting?

-Nasty-

Actually, I would like to see Paladins and Clerics flopped around: It seems to me that Paladins are the ones that REALLY express their servitude to their deities through both religious and physical action. They would make better "priests". :)

Quote from: SenkennomeiActually, I would like to see Paladins and Clerics flopped around: It seems to me that Paladins are the ones that REALLY express their servitude to their deities through both religious and physical action. They would make better "priests". :)

I actually feel quite the opposite. I think paladins serve their code first and foremost, and their deity (if they even worship one at all) second. Paladins don't look to the gods for example about what it means to be pure and just, they set the example themselves.

A paladin should not be viewed as a divine champion, they are lawful good, and not all gods mirror their devotion to justice, purity, and honor (even some LG gods are not as virtuous as paladins IMHO); clerics are divine champions however, and they do devote themselves to the ideals of their gods, good, evil, or otherwise.

-Nasty-

mmmhhmmm...
spellcasting classes:
bard
cleric
druid
(monk)
paladin
ranger
sorcerer
wizard
(psionics?)

I think magic in the BFG should generally come from a regulated source, to enforce the lawful/beaurocratic/official nature of the empire. wizard libraries, official pantheons in temples for clerics to follow, a society of paladins, etc.; while in the city states, leave magic a much more chaotic and personal affair. Wizards experiment, sorcerers flourish, bards jeolously protect their personal style of music from other musicians, a lone paladin goes questing from village to village, whatever.

I think we could leave the origins of magic fairly undefined. there might be many wizard organizations spread out over the city states, each having a slightly different approach to magic, etc. we dont have to go the fr approach of "this god creates the weave which all magic comes from but for this magic which comes from shadow blahblahblah."

Quote from: brainfacemmmhhmmm...
spellcasting classes:
bard
cleric
druid
(monk)
paladin
ranger
sorcerer
wizard
(psionics?)

I think magic in the BFG should generally come from a regulated source, to enforce the lawful/beaurocratic/official nature of the empire. wizard libraries, official pantheons in temples for clerics to follow, a society of paladins, etc.; while in the city states, leave magic a much more chaotic and personal affair. Wizards experiment, sorcerers flourish, bards jeolously protect their personal style of music from other musicians, a lone paladin goes questing from village to village, whatever.

I think we could leave the origins of magic fairly undefined. there might be many wizard organizations spread out over the city states, each having a slightly different approach to magic, etc. we dont have to go the fr approach of "this god creates the weave which all magic comes from but for this magic which comes from shadow blahblahblah."

Sounds pretty good to me.

-Nasty-

EDIT: Number 5 needs INPUT!

I think arcane magic should have one explanation, while divine magic should have another explanation; and thus possible psionics would have a third.

You already know my thoughts on the cleric and the druid; I think they should be separated based on the religions (emperial or totemic). Now, this doesn't mean that there won't be druids in the empire, they're just not sanctioned.

I do like the idea of sanctioned magic in the empire. There would be regulated wizard schools, though bardic colleges could exist and be less regulated and a little shady (bards are non-lawful after all). Clerics all follow the emperial pantheon (in my opinion), but each city may have a patron saint and most follow that. I do think the emperial pantheon should have a few evil deities, but they exist as "bad guys" and their worship is forbidden.

If we wish to keep the paladin rather than switching to a more generic champion (the UA variants basically) or a templar (as I've posted), I can see them existing all over. But within the Empire they would be an organization.

Now, paladins and wizards tied to their organizations may be out in the city states: I don't see the city states being so regulated as to keep outsiders out. But within the empire, I see sorcerers and druids being persecuted, while I see wizards and clerics being much more common.

I still don't know where to stand as far as psionics is concerned. I'd rather not see psionics in this world, as I don't think it fits the dualistic approach we seem to be headed in.

Xev I'm with you all they way on your roles and placement of magic. Not a single disagreement (amazing!)

QuoteI still don't know where to stand as far as psionics is concerned. I'd rather not see psionics in this world, as I don't think it fits the dualistic approach we seem to be headed in.

Did you see the ideas we were brainstorming in the psionics thread about a destroyed psionic totem god, cult worship of it in the empire, and lone psions/wilders/psychic warriors in the wild who have begun to manifest psionic powers w/o their totem?

I think I also mentioned the possibility that the totem priests (druids) might persecute the psionic people for using powers that "belong" to the gods. Check it out. It fits the dual theme, and won't be so invasive that DMs will be forced to acknowledge it.

-Nasty-

Quote from: xevI do think the emperial pantheon should have a few evil deities, but they exist as "bad guys" and their worship is forbidden.

cleric/druid[/quote]
I don't like separating cleric/druid. It makes sense to me for metropolitan city states to have clerics, and a more nature oriented empire saint to have druids. You already know this, i'm just stating it for the record. :)

QuoteI would say rather that they're like the SS or inquisition--seen as 'necessary evils'. Like, you dont want to be around followers of that saint, but they are an officially recognized saint of the empire, fulfill a need, blahblahblah, necessary for the triumph of the empire, who aer you to criticize, etc.

An here I thought I was completely alone. I too want to see an organization like this in the empire (I mentioned it in the psioncs thread)...but I'd also like to see a few evil gods that aren't officaially recognized, or sanctioned, but are still worshipped within imperial lands. A god of murder, trickery, and stealth for example, might be the patron of assassins, theives, and cold-blooded killers; the lawful imperium however probably wouldn't approve of his "religion."

-Nasty-

Well .... if we're making the empire "strictly" (as in generally speaking) lawful, then LE and maybe even NE "saints" is fine with me.

I have stuff to add to this.

I suggest, if we're using homebrewed stuff, to use a (suitably modified by you) version of my magic system thing. It just seems (to me, although I'm biased) like it would suit the totem gods a lot better than hated-by-everyone vancian magic.

*cough* Self publicisation (or however you spell it) done with, I still dislike the idea of having a divide between Divine and Arcane magic, or indeed using Vancian magic for anything other than Bards and maybe Wizards.

Quote from: brainfaceI don't like separating cleric/druid. It makes sense to me for metropolitan city states to have clerics, and a more nature oriented empire saint to have druids. You already know this, i'm just stating it for the record. :)

I agree, besides there are always the urban druid and ranger variants which could be more prominent within the empire.

As far as separation goes I think the empire shouldn't have any such separation (with the possible exception of Psionics) because of the more learned culture and society. Where as outside the empire is supposed to be a more 'savage' culture and they would have a lesser understanding of such magics. With that maybe they should be restricted to divine magic (and possibly sorcerers)?

Well... I'd like to delineate magic between "elements" of sorts.

We could have air/earth/wind/fire (which will look arcane in the classical sense) then have life/death (a little closer to clerical) then green/metal (for druids, and arcana akin to fullmetal alchemist) and finally void, which covers magic that is more ephemereal.

My proposal for the way magic works in the world:

Divine works on faith alone and is not granted by the gods. Clerics, druids, and paladins must believe strongly in their chosen ideal, Totem or Saint.

Arcane magic comes from the energy of the world. A wizard uses calculated formulas to manipulate the energy in the environment. Sorcerers and bards to some extent are more in tune with the world and can feel this energy. They simply will the energy to form into spells.

Psionics are used by those that have found the power within. They use the power of the mind to manipulate the world around them.

Quote from: PoseidonMy proposal for the way magic works in the world:

Divine works on faith alone and is not granted by the gods. Clerics, druids, and paladins must believe strongly in their chosen ideal, Totem or Saint.

Arcane magic comes from the energy of the world. A wizard uses calculated formulas to manipulate the energy in the environment. Sorcerers and bards to some extent are more in tune with the world and can feel this energy. They simply will the energy to form into spells.

Psionics are used by those that have found the power within. They use the power of the mind to manipulate the world around them.

Agreed. :cool: