The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: TúrinI see this Empire as being a bit more oppressive than that. Especially given the way we're constructing religion (organized saint worship vs. the totems, which are radically different) I'd say the Empire would take great pains to get new citizens to convert to their religion. In fact I believe it would be a requirement.

Actually, on the whole I don't like the idea of pulling Roman tricks of liberalism with regards to different cultures, religion and citizenship. I'd much rather see the lesser degree of acceptance of the new Empire being a primary reason why it is less successful than the old Empire. This is also playing up the law vs. chaos theme more, making the new Empire more of a charicature of lawfulness. I see the old Empire as combining the good parts of law and chaos in it, while the new Empire and the tribes are just a little bit too extreme on the law and chaos sides, respectively.

On a sidenote, I'm not sure if we're using alignment in this setting, but removing it changes nothing in the argument above.

Túrin

I agree with making the conquered people give up alot, especially their totem. However, I think the Empire would still want to make people citizens. Citizens that have special rights over another people are less likely to revolt, and they provide soldiers for the army and navy.

The Empire can keep its tyranical nature if it uses a system similar to what Xathan suggested. Here is a scenario for the conquering of Leftbonia.

The Empire crushes what little forces the Leftbonia army can muster. Leftbonia is split into two or three domains, each are given to a new lord. The domains are split by the lords and land is given to some of their warriors as reward.

The people of Leftbonia are told they must give up the life they once knew. No more worshiping their totem (if it is alive it is hunted and killed to prove it is a false god) and they must start worshiping the saints from the old Empire. Those that refuse are taken away and used as slaves elsewhere in the Empire. Those that except the terms given to them are able to stay in their homes and are now the lowest class of the Empire (almost slaves).

They must pay heavy tributes to their lords and the Empire and they cannot own land. After five or so years of loyalty they can now become stage 1 citizens. Stage 1 citizens have more rights, less of a tribute, and they can join the army/navy to gain further rights and citizenship. If during those five or so years they break laws or are found worshiping the a Totem god, (depending on the crime) they are punished and the time to become a citizen is extended or taken into slavery. This leaves room for corrupt lords that want to keep the people under his rule as low as possible.

Suggestion for levels citizenship (warning slightly random).

Stage 0: Just conquered. Almost no rights. Can earn money, but must pay heavy tributes from that money to the lord of the domain and the Empire. Cannot own land. Cannot travel. Cannot wear any colored clothes.

Stage 1: Minimum of five years of loyalty. Tributes are lessened, Can serve in the military (as infantry or crew only). Have a few rights. Cannot own land. Cannot travel, unless part of the military. Clothes may have earthtoned dyes.

Stage 2: Minimum of ten years of loyalty (outstanding military service can lessen the required years). Tributes are once again lessened. More rights are bestowed. Can travel throughout the realm of the Empire. Can wear more lively colors. Cannot own land. Can be trained as archers and support roles in the military.

Stage 3: Minimum of fifteen years of loyalty(outstanding military service can lessen the required years). Tributes are once again lessened. Full citizen rights. Can own land. Can hold any non-high level military position. Can be trained to use magic.

Slaves, definitely.

As to that comment about most of it being landlocked...

What about canals? Extensions of real and artifical rivers both? On the other hand, a moving land-palace would be pretty impressive too... a totem creature slave bearing it, say? A colossal elephant, or bear, or something?

Quote from: WensleydaleSlaves, definitely.

As to that comment about most of it being landlocked...

What about canals? Extensions of real and artifical rivers both? On the other hand,

Depends on the size of this floating fotress. It may be too big for rivers and canals.

Quote from: Wensleydalea moving land-palace would be pretty impressive too... a totem creature slave bearing it, say? A colossal elephant, or bear, or something?

Now that is a way to show your power. Their god now a slave to the Emperor. That is soooo evil it is great.



MittenNinja, what dimensions were you thinking about for the ship of doom?

Quote from: PoseidonMittenNinja, what dimensions were you thinking about for the ship of doom?

That would really depend on how it's constructed. Large enough to be a near fully functional self-contained entity though. The titanic was a little over 800 ft long to give you guys an idea of scale. I had envisioned something a little larger than that though so maybe 1000 ft or so?

A Land based uber vessel would be pretty sweet too. If any of you have taken a gander at the dragonmech setting there's some pretty crazy city mechs in there.  

How wide and deep?

From a historical standpoint the width of the older sailing ships was about 1/5-1/3 of the length. Going by that a width of 200 - 350 would be what we are looking at. Is 300 ft ok? Bigger? Smaller?

A 1000ft long ship, I would say you would want at least two decks of slaves. 180 oars per deck per side. About 4 or 5 slaves per oar...

That would be:
720 oars with 2880 to 3600 slaves needed to row this thing.

How does that sound?

sounds good to me.

That would work.

And for land? Let's say that the totem of Reddishblueland, the place of the empire's refounding, was captured as a statement of power by Emperor Magnus the 1st (or whatever). It could be a colossal mammoth, a huge spider - whatever. It would be chained and bound by magic practically, but to show the empire's might, huge chains would be there for symbolic purposes. On its back I can imagine that it would likely have something the same size as (wow, that's pretty huge) said ship, or slightly smaller. It seems unlikely that it would be built for war, but more to impress, and to make a point. Some way could be devised of coping with the motion, I imagine, and there could even be cabins if the creature was big enough. That would be more along the lines of a palace though, equipped with everything required, whereas you could just have a totem as the emperor's mount.

Or even several totems pulling a colossal cart, that could work too.

Now, language. I think this is an important aspect, as it's probably the most likely thing to have affected the regions that were part of the Old Empire. Is the Empire going to have its own language? If so, I imagine it would serve as a trading language across a large section of the world (i.e. the parts that used to be Imperial and their neighbours).

I think the fact that there used to be an even larger Empire that covered most of the continent is a fine excuse to introduce Oldempirish as a trade language ('Common') for the entire continent, though not the entire world.

Túrin

I definitely second Turin's notion.

It makes sense, which is why I suggested it. However, it's likely that after this time, it will have degenerated somewhat into regional dialects (where spoken as a first language) so maybe we should... well, that can be sorted once we reach civilisation-makin' stage, I suppose.

Right. When you design a civilization you can simply add whether or not it has its own language or dialect.

Roighty-ho.

Now, the other thing I would like to get asserted (as we never reached a conclusion) is the Saints. We know the Empire worships them... but who are they? I think we had a few ideas (Lord Garret, Lord Theo etc etc etc), but should we establish at least a few of the Saints?

Particularly, I think we need to know who founded the first Empire, who was the last Emperor of it, and who the refounder is. (I.E. Princep Constantine founded the Empire, Emperor Manae finally lost control, Emperor Sinum reestablished it). Also, if there is a different emperor now, we need to establish who that is. More complicated political affairs (does the Emperor have complete power etc etc) can be established later.

I was told someone had Saint questions? :D

The way I see it, there should be a saint for the empire's founder, and the refounder if he has died since the beginning of the quest for new power and such.

My idea was that especially well-known figures would be pushed to a level of divinity by faith over time, and so not every emperor would become a Saint.

That works. Serious names for founder, refounder and the man who let the empire eventually slip into decline?