Discussion: Empire

Túrin · June 21, 2007, 11:07:17 AM

I don't really have anything to add at the moment, except restoring the natural balance by disagreeing with Poseidon. ;)

What I'm trying to say is, the whole brainwashing thing might be taking the Empire's evil a bit too far, as was pointed out by our beloved furniture asset. :P

I can agree with some propaganda being used to make the Empire look good and justify slavery, but
a) the full power of brainwashing and propaganda is probably unknown given the tech level (the first time these things were really used and understood was in the 20th century, AFAIK), and
b) given the level of development we're at, slavery might not even need to be justified. Especially given that the lands we're talking about have already been under the rule of an Empire in the past, there might easily be an established code of honour that requires X years of servitude in slavery after your land is conquered, or something similar. This doesn't need to be very formal, but it might just be accepted as natural that the conqueror takes slaves, and the slaves might feel obliged to serve because of this.

Túrin

Poseptune · June 21, 2007, 11:54:41 AM

ahhh the universe is right again.

There doesn't need to be and technology involved. Simply growing up being told you are scum and the Empire is good is enough. If you're told something enough most people will begin to believe it. Though it may be a little over the top, so if it flops. I'm not too attached.

Ishmayl-Retired · June 21, 2007, 11:59:54 AM

I don't think I'm a huge fan of the mass-brainwashing thing... seems too sci-fi to me.

Poseptune · June 21, 2007, 12:02:39 PM

I was just throwing it out there. You may have thwarted me this time community, I've got more doomsday devices or random ideas. (The or makes it a true statement :P)

Quote from: LordVreeg[blockquote=Son of Chronos]Stage 0: Just conquered. Almost no rights. Can earn money, but must pay heavy tributes from that money to the lord of the domain and the Empire. Cannot own land. Cannot travel. Cannot wear any colored clothes.

Stage 1: Minimum of five years of loyalty. Tributes are lessened, Can serve in the military (as infantry or crew only). Have a few rights. Cannot own land. Cannot travel, unless part of the military. Clothes may have earthtoned dyes.

Stage 2: Minimum of ten years of loyalty (outstanding military service can lessen the required years). Tributes are once again lessened. More rights are bestowed. Can travel throughout the realm of the Empire. Can wear more lively colors. Cannot own land. Can be trained as archers and support roles in the military.

Stage 3: Minimum of fifteen years of loyalty(outstanding military service can lessen the required years). Tributes are once again lessened. Full citizen rights. Can own land. Can hold any non-high level military position. Can be trained to use magic. [/blockquote]

Don't know about the colored clothing. Prostitutes and entertainers (and and Empire NEEDS these...) are going to wear brightly colored clothes.

I would also add at level 0, they must be sponsored by an Old Family or someone who is supported by them, like in a mechant class (serfdom, in a way. They may get out of slavery, but not too far, not too fast.). Cannot be taught to use numbers or to read/write, if they do not know. Cannot bear weapons.

At level 1, can carry a dagger or club, can be taught numbers, but not to read/write.

at level 2, allow them to be taught to read and write.

See, there is no forgetting your citizenship post.

Would these be in place of what I proposed? or an addendum? (if addendum I would add shortsword if a member of the military for stage 1)

I like the not being able to be taught.

What I was trying to do with the clothes is give some visual indication of their status. I have read a book that did the same thing with hair lengths. The longer your hair the more important you were, and nobodies hair could be longer than the highest official.

Stargate525 · June 21, 2007, 12:08:38 PM

Well if your slaves can't be taught, what's the point of the kiddies going to school then? ;)

I agree that the slaves should not have rights, but I think that scaling in the number of rights you have as you stay longer is enough.

LordVreeg · June 21, 2007, 03:02:29 PM

W.I.P, so addendum only. Short sword is good idea, too!

Where did I miss something that said we were brainwashing? I might have mispoke, as I'm suggesting nothing more wild and crazy than the effective practice of christianity for at least a millenia of it's history, or Egyptian religion over 2 millenia, or any number of moslem countries over the last century and a half.

Unbelievers have been fair game for any number of religions. I don't think Poseidon and myself want to brainwash, we were postulating setting up a belief system, like many, that places one group (Alcan Empirites) as the chosen ones, and everyone else as the great unwashed.

Wensleydale · June 21, 2007, 04:44:08 PM

Quote from: LordVreegUnbelievers have been fair game for any number of religions. I don't think Poseidon and myself want to brainwash, we were postulating setting up a belief system, like many, that places one group (Alcan Empirites) as the chosen ones, and everyone else as the great unwashed.

I think it works, personally - it has historical fact behind it, after all.

Túrin · June 21, 2007, 05:39:43 PM

Quote from: PoseidonI was just throwing it out there. You may have thwarted me this time community, I've got more doomsday devices or random ideas. (The or makes it a true statement :P)

Are you saying you don't actually have random ideas? :P

Also, I agree with what Lord Vreeg and Wensleydale said.

Túrin

Xathan · June 21, 2007, 10:36:37 PM

So, question:

There's that unregioned little landmass (one of the larger non continental landmasses) up in the NE corner of the map. Being all cold and arctic, and far away from the empire, I had an idea that the Old Empire established a prision colony on that island, much like the British used Australia. The key here, though, is that the mini-continent was used to house magical prisoners. Well, the Old Empire has fallen and the New Empire has either forgotten about or decided to ignore that island, but the descendants of those who were sent there have remembered all too well.

So, what I was wondering is if anyone would mind if I developed that area as a region on its own, if we should make it a community region tied to the empire, or if I and we should leave it alone until we develop the other ~40 regions we have to develop. :)

Túrin · June 22, 2007, 07:08:57 AM

Why don't you build it in the most NE region that does have a number?

Xathan · June 22, 2007, 12:02:39 PM

Because it's directly attached to the main landmass. :)

Actually, don't worry about it anymore - I think I'll just do something else somewhere else. :)

Ravenspath · June 22, 2007, 06:14:01 PM

I say run with it Xathan as all yours.

Numinous · June 24, 2007, 01:05:00 PM

Quote from: LordVreegSo what influence level is the theocratic influence within the Empire going to be? Are we going to have the Cardinals/High Initiates vying for control of the New Court? Supporting the new regime, or trying to control it? Will they field their own forces?

Saints[/b]: Historically significant figures in the empires history who were deified by the power of faith. They might be nobles, clever peasants, or folk heroes. So long as they were sigifcant, they might have power.

Good job so far folks, keep it up!

LordVreeg · June 24, 2007, 03:32:18 PM

[blockquote=Natural Rose]My original vision of the Saints was a figurehead used by the empire to maintain the loyalty of the populace. They would appear in fables, parables, and legends. The clergy will almost certainly pull strings on the emperor because they hold the faith of the people in their hands.[/blockquote]

Hmm. I like the second part, but it seemed in the threads that the Saint religion had morphed in some degree to be less of a figurehead and more of a tidal wave that the new empier was riding.

Numinous · June 24, 2007, 03:50:06 PM

Let's keep in mind that the Saints were written in a time before the basis of faith = power was even decided upon. I suggest we let ideas change as we work, so that it all fits together.

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Discussion: Empire

Túrin

Poseptune

Ishmayl-Retired

Poseptune

Stargate525

LordVreeg

Wensleydale

Túrin

Xathan

Túrin

Xathan

Ravenspath

Numinous

LordVreeg

Numinous