The Campaign Builder's Guild

Yeah, and sixty is a little insane. We keep the spell failure doubling (casters still shouldn't be in armor), and bump the base DC to 50. How's that?

Liking that.  We don't want to deter players from being casters cuz the fancy new system we just spent GOD knows how long on makes it next to impossible.  I do like the circles idea.  At first I thought it was just complicating things, but it does make the casting of particular spells that the caster always uses easier.  That way you can still cast spells that you need, but you don't make it easier to cast a spell that you haven't used in years.

I believe 2 would be best, as well.

*Casts raise thread*

*narrowly makes Dc roll*

Anyone else have comments on this?

I will, but its been so long I have to do some massive re-reading.

To avoid too much re-reading I give you...

Quote from: Stargate525Okay, Happhazzard casting in one east to read post! I've marked things in red that I'm not certain on.

Obtaining Spells
Spells are acquired as is normal for your class (scribe into spellbooks, automatically known, whatever). If you're using this to replace each caster individually, nothing else happens.

If you're using the system to replace casters, all spells are available. obtaining one that is not on your normal spell list requires an adjustment of your caster level, as is shown below.

[table=Caster Level Penalty] [tr][th]Class[/th][th]Bard[/th][th]Cleric[/th][th]Druid[/th][th]Paladin[/th]
[th]Ranger[/th][th]Sorc/Wiz[/th][/tr]
[tr][th]Bard[/th]    [td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]2[/td][td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]Cleric[/th]  [td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]Druid[/th]   [td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]Paladin[/th] [td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]3[/td][td]3[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]Ranger[/th]  [td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][td]3[/td][td]0[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]Sorc/Wiz[/th][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]2[/td][td]3[/td][td]2[/td][td]0[/td][/tr]
[/table]
For instance, a level 8 sorceror wishing to obtain a Paladin spell will cast it as though  he were a 5th level sorceror for all statistics regarding the spell. In addition, the spell has a (CL penalty x 10) increase in its base casting DC.

Because some spells appear on multiple lists, the guidelines for taking them are to use the version on your spell list first, then from the class that matches your magic type, either divine or arcane. If neither of those apply, take the highest level example of the spell.

Casting and Improving Spells
Spells are cast off of a mana point system, where spells per day are broken into a mana pool, allowing any combination of spells to be cast. Each level of spell has a different base cost, as shown below;

[table=Spell cost][tr][th]Level[/th][th]Cost[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]0[/td][td]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2[/td][td]4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3[/td][td]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4[/td][td]8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6[/td][td]12[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7[/td][td]14[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8[/td][td]16[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9[/td][td]18[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Converting the amount of points a class gets is easy. Simply take the spells cast per day and convert them into points. For example, a 5th level sorceror would get 34 points; six for each of his 0 level spells, 12 for his first level slots, and 16 for his second level slots. For levels 10-20, divide that total by 1/10th of the level. For example, the total mana at 18th level would be divided by 1.8

Casting a spell now requires a roll of a d%, against a DC of 50 + (spell level x 10). This DC can be adjusted by the use of additional mana, shown in the table below;
[table=metamagic][tr][th]Additional points[/th][th]DC reduction[/th][/tr]
[tr][th]3[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7[/td][td]10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]13[/td][td]15[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]21[/td][td]20[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]31[/td][td]25[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]43[/td][td]30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]57[/td][td]35[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]73[/td][td]40[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]91[/td][td]45[/td][/tr][/table]

The roll made against this DC is as follows;
1d100 + (Skill Bonus in the governing school) + (Spell Mastery Bonus)

Each school of magic is now its own skill, whose bonus goes towards your roll. The Universal Skill is folded into spellcraft. A large number of ranks will get you a certain number of bonus points to use on spells in that school.

Spell Mastery represents your affinity for the articular spell you're casting. Spell Mastery is divided into 9 different levels, called circles, of magic. Each circle provides a cumulative +4 bonus to the roll, starting at -4 at circle zero. For instance, a spell being cast at circle 4 provides a +12 to your roll.

Circles are reached by multiple castings of the spell. To reach a new circle, it needs to  be cast a number of times equal to spell's level x 5 x circle you're trying to reach, with 0 counting as 1/2. So to get a zero level spell into the first circle, we need to successfully cast it three times (.5x5x1 rounded up). To get it to the second circle, you'd need to do it five times (.5x5x2), and so on.

Metamagic
Casting metamagic in this system is slightly different. To determine the number of points, simply boost the spell level as normal for spells-per-day casting as normal. The difference comes in with the casting check. Using metamagic increases the Dc to cast the spell, as follows;
[table=metamagic][tr][th]Level increase[/th][th]DC increase[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]+0[/td][td]0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]+1[/td][td]15[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]+2[/td][td]30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]+3[/td][td]45[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]+4[/td][td]60[/td][/tr][/table]

I just went through the whole thread again and came up with two things: A lot of suggestions were about to be covered, but we moved on too quickly, and there were things that may be important that weren't covered in the recap in my last post.

More Recaps

-Int: Conjuration, Abjuration, Evocation (Universal?)
Wis: Transmutation, Divination, Necromancy
Cha: Illusion, Enchantment

-we're using skill based spellcasting

-spellcraft skills for each school, (Conj, abj, ench, illusion, evoc, necro, trans, and div)
divine skills (domains, and regular divine)

-the long thing about learning spells in the first few posts

Things I Would Like to Talk About Again (these are mostly things copy-pasted from prior posts)

-I suggest the caster being able to take ten except when something happens to him while casting. example: knight has got the enemy's attention, wizard takes ten on firebolt. example 2: Goblin minion starts attacking wizard, distracting him so he cant take ten. OR, if they pass their concentration roll by, i dunno.....an extra 5? they can still take ten. just thought there should be something in there about that

-What if you took a feat the allowed you to know metamagic in general

-I had another thought. What if the maximum spell level was tied to the number of ranks in the governing skill?

-The workings of metamagic in general

The caster should be able to take ten only when  he does not know if he is being attacked, or if he his  not threatened/being threatened. A general metamagic feat should exist, but you would have to do certain things to unlock them. Sort of like legacy weapons.

I'd say that since it's a skill, the caster should be able to take ten whenever the take 10 rules for skills dictate. It's really quite simple.

As for metamagic, my brain refuses to function at such a high level this late...

maximum level tied to skill ranks... hmmm.

[table=Chart do dah...][tr][th]ranks at level (s/w)[/th][th]level[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]4/4[/td][td]0[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4/4[/td][td]1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7/6[/td][td]2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9/8[/td][td]3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11/10[/td][td]4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]13/12[/td][td]5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]15/14[/td][td]6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]17/16[/td][td]7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]19/18[/td][td]8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]21/20[/td][td]9[/td][/tr]
[/table]