The Campaign Builder's Guild

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Keep on the Shadowfell

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A D&D adventure for characters of levels 1-3.

The town of Winterhaven stands watch over a ruined keep that was once a bastion of good in the realm. This keep overlooks the Shadow Rift, a dark scar in the world that was once a gateway to the Shadowfell but has been dormant for many years. Now, an evil cleric of Orcus, Demon Lord of the Undead, seeks to re-open the gate, and the only thing standing in his way is a small yet determined band of heroes from Winterhaven.

Keep on the Shadowfell is an exciting Dungeons & Dragons adventure designed for characters of levels 1-3. It includes three double-sided poster maps suitable for use with D&D miniatures, as well as information on the town of Winterhaven and environs.

So now, I know that Wizards didn't actually (most likely) steal my stuff, but man, between the title of the adventure, and the background info involved, some of that description sounds way too close for comfort. :(

Ouch. You could object, but I doubt you'd get anywhere with it.

This does not bode well.

Quote from: Rocket MisfireThis does not bode well.

It doesn't? At least we know they're stealing from the best.

In Dutch we have a saying that goes something like: "better well copied than badly created". :)

Túrin

Yeah, there's the "I'm flattered that I'm being copied" saying here in this language too.

Table top RPG gaming is an art that our society generally does not give great (monetary) rewards to with the exception of a few elite, like WotC. When the elite are copying from those that pursue the art for their passion for it and not the bling from being part of the elite, we have a problem.

I love making stories for my gaming group to co-operate in telling. I don't think about how much money I could make if I charged money for it. But if someone were to charge money from my creativity, guess who I believe should get the money?

Edit-> Oh and Link: http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=1046
I started a thread on another board. First response:

Quote from: Captain_BleachWhen did Wizards make their "version?"  If you feel wronged, and they DID steal your idea, then threaten a law-suit.

Well, unless they started working on this one adventure back in 2003 (doubtful?), then I came up with Shadowfell first :)

Guys, I'm not going to post this person's name, but I have actually been talking with someone who went through something a couple years ago.  Here's the conversation:

Quote from: My First PMI've been doing some research lately on some issues that have arisen around the site, and I thought it would be worth my while to ask you about them. I've posted some material on these boards that all of a sudden have a very uncanny resemblance to a new WotC product. I've contacted a few people about the subject, but have not yet received any sort of official word back from anyone, and I've since let the subject drop (with the knowledge that I will never again post anything on these boards that I don't want WotC to steal). Then recently, reading up on [names of threads and posters removed, I referenced a thread at WotC], he removed all his material, and cited an issue you had as his reason. I was just curious what happened. If you don't feel like divulging that information to a complete internet stranger, I definitely understand, but I was just wondering if it was a similar situation to mine, and if there's anything that can be done about it.
Cheers!
-Ish

I suppose, both from the tone of your response, as well as the lack of official word I've received back on the subject, that there is nothing that can be done about this? Whether or not one clicks "I agree," somehow it just doesn't seem right (and that last statement is laced with a bit of sarcasm, which is probably hard to hear over the medium of the internet).[/quote]
No, there is nothing you can do about it other than not post up material you want to maintain sole ownership of.

When you hit "I Agree", you signed a legally binding document. There is nothing you can do, because you legally gave WotC permission to do it. "But I didn't read the contract before I signed it!" is not a defense, and you would just get laughed out of court.

So, yeah, bottom line is that you gave them express permission to take anything and everything you ever put on the boards, and to use it in any way they see fit, and gave them permission to do so without ever paying you, or giving you any official recognition in any way.

Sucks, don't it?
The only way to avoid this in the future, if you still want to show it to people on the boards, is to put it up on your own personal webpage, and then link to that page in your post.

And I'll give you a warning I didn't get.
If you go around publically [sic] saying WotC stole your stuff, you will get a message from the WotC legal department that basically says "Shut your mouth, or we're suing you for slander."  My advice is to let it drop.  Sorry that's not much good news.[/quote]

So what do you guys think of that?  

Did you put Shadowfell on the WotC boards?

Yeah, but it's been awhile... the only way you can find it now is by going to their archives.  It would have been at least 2k5 since I actually updated/posted any campaign-specific stuff there.

BTW, I'm not asking what do you guys think about the legality of these shenanigans.  I know that legally, I signed something in some way that said they could use their enormous resources to pay someone to steal my work, rather than pay them to come up with their own stuff. I'm just curious what you think of the over all "We can use your stuff without paying you" clause?

Need some inspiration?



That's right. Serve as a warning to others.
You gave Edisons of the Coast Shadowfell. Unknowingly, but you did.

Now what? You can't get compensated for your creativity. But maybe you can help other people in the future.

Add to your.sig on the WotC boards the line "I post with full knowledge that everything I post becomes the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, and that I receive no compensation for any intellectual property I give to Wizards of the Coast threw posting."

I guess I should state, realistically, there until the game actually comes out, there will no proof one way or the other that they actually did "lift" intellectual property that they themselves did not develop.  But damn, come on... Shadowfell???  :)

Well, one option I read about on the WotC boards was putting everything crunchy under the OGL and designating the important parts (creatures, names, prestige classes, etc) as product identity.

However, as I'm absolutely no lawyer I wonder if that would work. Which "contract" would take precidence, the Gleemax ToU or the OGL? :huh:

Unlikely that you could override the ToU contract unilaterally just by saying so. Although possible - a lawyer might argue that if you put the alternative terms in your post and they don't contest it, they've implicitly accepted the modified agreement.

The thing is, in some ways I sympathize with WotC. Put up message boards, you'll surely get an avalanche of monsters, spells, items, settings, and whatnot posted up. Sooner or later, something someone posted will be "uncannily" similar to something that you've had in the works - after all, we're mostly working from the same cultural and literary basis, so similarities aren't too unexpected.

So they want to, perhaps even need to, protect themselves from baseless claims. And avoid having to document and police themselves for the ultimate source of every idea and notion that crosses their minds.

Thing is, once those terms are in place, it essentially gives the WotC folks carte blanche to skim the boards to more-or-less blatantly rip off ideas and mechanics. Need a monster concept, or NPC for your adventure? Gee, I think I saw something that would fit the bill in the forums ... let me go see ... yup, a little tweak here and there, that will do nicely ...

Ultimately, if you put stuff up on WotC boards, you can enjoy the comparatively wide audience for your stuff, with the knowledge that it might end up in some form in WotC products, unacknowledged. Just take some pride in the fact that they thought your idea was worthwhile.

If you don't want your stuff showing up in someone else's publication, post it somewhere (like here) that doesn't have much commercial interest in ripping it off. We don't need those kinds of terms at CBG because we don't have an independent publishing agenda.

Or just keep it to yourself until you publish it.

QuoteI'm just curious what you think of the over all "We can use your stuff without paying you" clause?

So now, I know that Wizards didn't actually (most likely) steal my stuff,[/quote]

Quote from: Rocket MisfireAdd to your.sig on the WotC boards the line "I post with full knowledge that everything I post becomes the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, and that I receive no compensation for any intellectual property I give to Wizards of the Coast through posting."

If you do this at least use the proper words.