The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote from: sparkletwist

Quote from: snakefingas long as you don't redefine the core SRD terms (and we don't yet know what they are),

big[/i] changes is against the rules. Of course, it depends on what the terms are... but it's something else to wonder about.

One of the major subversive points of 4e, in my opinion, is to restrict and eliminate people changing D&D in any significant way. WotC wants us to buy into the basic mechanics of 4e because they want us creating classes, races, feats & settings, not redefining how Grapple, Sunder and magic work.  

I fully expect to see most settings follow a standardized pattern for mechanics because we'll all be shackled to WotC's ideas. A few years down the road, this may, depending on how restrictive the License is, give the old 3.5 OGL new life :)

Quote"We're extremely excited to have both analog and digital components come together for D&D 4th Edition," said Scott Rouse, Senior Brand Manager for D&D.

poor[/i] use of the word "analog."

Quote from: Ishmayl

Quote"We're extremely excited to have both analog and digital components come together for D&D 4th Edition," said Scott Rouse, Senior Brand Manager for D&D.

poor[/i] use of the word "analog."

It's the modern trend to describe anything that has a digital equivalent as analogue. Is it proper in the original sense of the word? No but, that's why languages evolve, lol.

better Analogue than some freaky latin word we've never heard of :P

Quote from: Elemental_ElfOne of the major subversive points of 4e, in my opinion, is to restrict and eliminate people changing D&D in any significant way. WotC wants us to buy into the basic mechanics of 4e because they want us creating classes, races, feats & settings, not redefining how Grapple, Sunder and magic work.

Right, so that way they can be sure you're playing their game. I think in the case of 3.x and the OGL they severely underestimated the amount people were going to change the system, and they don't want to let 4E get away from them again.

To me, this is kind of a letdown. I'm not much for crunch, and, honestly, I'm not much for D&D these days any more anyway. The main reason I registered on this site wasn't anything to do with D&D but more because of all of the interesting settings and world-building and roleplaying and such things on display here... I'd hate to see stuff like that curtailed because of some stupid decree of "you can't redefine these words any more."

Quote from: sparkletwist

Quote from: Elemental_ElfOne of the major subversive points of 4e, in my opinion, is to restrict and eliminate people changing D&D in any significant way. WotC wants us to buy into the basic mechanics of 4e because they want us creating classes, races, feats & settings, not redefining how Grapple, Sunder and magic work.

Personally, down the road I see campaign settings ridding the system of entire power sources (like no Arcane power) in an attempt to make their settings unique and different.

I totally agree that D&D just lost a lot of its appeal for me from a Campaign Builder perspective. Granted I will still make settings for 4e but, I definately see myself sticking with 3.5 if I'm going to do anything unique. Plus, once 4e is released, I'm sure we'll begin to see people copy the system while still publishing under the OGL :)

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI totally agree that D&D just lost a lot of its appeal for me from a Campaign Builder perspective. Granted I will still make settings for 4e but, I definately see myself sticking with 3.5 if I'm going to do anything unique.

Sure, creative people will continue to create. However, if it's going to come down to a conflict between creative vision and following the GSL, they'll probably just dump D&D altogether.

At some point in the past I was actually thinking that 4E might be a good "fresh start" for me; to be able to become re-acquainted with the game, and be able to integrate my fluff more coherently into the game rules. However, with these restrictions, I'm seriously wondering if it'd be worth bothering. I probably won't know for sure until the list of forbidden words is released, but I'm not optimistic. GURPS anyone?

Well, keep in mind that the GSL won't really apply to everything. You only need the GSL if what you are doing would otherwise violate copyright, for example, if you start creating derivative works or quote the rules beyond "fair use".

The legal issues are quite complex around derivative works and fair use, and I can't pretend to really understand them. But there is a big difference between creating something for your own use, and publishing it.

It's all still pretty relevant to the CBG, because we like to post our creations here for people to see and comment on. By strict standards, that would qualify as "publishing" and potentially opens up the poster (and possibly also the CBG) to some kind of legal action. I'm worried that could create a bit of a chilling effect on forums like this.

I'm still waiting to see how exactly it works. But it will probably be pretty useful, once we know, to take some time to create guidelines for how to work effectively within the GSL.

For example, if you want to change how the Diplomacy skill works (assuming there still is a Diplomacy skill), can you add new uses for the skill? Change the DC's? Presumably you could always create a new skill, call it Negotiation or something, and do whatever you want, so long as you don't copy D&D descriptions verbatim. Can you add this new skill to the class skill list for Rogues? (Assuming there are still Rogues and class skill lists, of course.) Or do you have to create a whole new class, call it Thief, and rewrite it?

There are ways to work around all these things, but depending how strict the GSL really is, it could become quite tedious and confusing. (Now wait, the Thief class is really just like the Rogue class? Yes, but with the following changes... Except we aren't really allowed to say that, so we'll just pretend it is a whole new class.)
 

The 4th Edition GSL is up.


... I don't know what to say about it after a quick glance... maybe after I read it some more...

If anything has the same power / ability as in the core books, you are to reference it first in small caps. DUNGEON MASTERS GUIDE 4.0. Then italics.  Dungeon Masters Guide 4.0. No page numbers. So if your paladin npc has smite, people buying / looking at your adventure must go look up the page numbers... ON THEIR OWN. It's inconvenient! -.-

Woot, I've got permission to use the d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d20, d100 format. Because they have exclusiveness to that. As a matter of fact, I'm going to start a list here.  [spoiler]

Their owned terms that clearly aren't public use...
the d#'s
Ability Scores, Str, Dex etc.
Alignments (Cap anyways)
Racial Traits O.o
Vision types
Languages (Cause dwarven... bahhhhh)
Damage Types
Power sources
Mace
Dagger (Maybe the damages...)
Not going through the rest.

[/spoiler]
Unless I'm mistaken here on that file. I think that's what they were trying to say. But clearly some of those they can't claim exclusiveness too.

Next beef: Q: How will I know if a new version of the GSL has been Released?
A: There will be no formal notification process. You should periodically check blah blah blah for changes... -.-

Though heres a good thing for here. Until they release a "Fansite GSL type thing," here is a Q&A for you all.

Q:What do I do on my website if I can not use the GSL?
A: Wizards will release a fansite policy in the future that will offer a limited license for specified uses. Websites are NOT licensed under the GSL.

Q: Can I extend the definition of a term.
A: No. You cannot change the substance or meaning of the definition.

Diplomacy in the PHB is what Diplomacy is.

Q: Can I define a different method to determine ability scores?
A: No. It's part of character creation.

Some of these rules for third parties suck, and some of their claims are outrageous. Why can't I reference a page number? Because we might reprint the book and it will be on a different page number -.-. I understand them saying hey, you can't just reprint a class skill in another book, you have to reference to our books. But to not allow page numbers is crazily inconvenient.

We can just terminate the license at anytime, and then you have to burn all of your products you've made. You must stop selling them. That's the, what you've created is more popular than ours, so we're terminating your license :-P.

I think if I wanted to just change the fluff of an elf, to fit my campaign setting, I'd probably have to name it "xyz Elf." Change the fluff, and if I wanted to keep the stats I could. But I'd have to reference them to the PHB. You can't change the mechanics of character creation.

I don't like a lot of their stuff in the GSL.

I don't really care what WotC publishes how I can use the GSL. It isn't going to stop me from homebrewing and sharing with the community. However, I can see how this may hurt third-party developers who are working for-profit.

Well, what did you expect? That they'd give away basically the whole 3 core books for free, as they did with 3.5?

Come on, WotC is a company, not some wellfare institute... :P

If you're going to invest a lot of money in a product, all to have the chance of it suddenly being told to destroy it? Not a very safe investment at all. I wouldn't do it if I was going for profit as a third party. I'd be more likely to create my own system.

Someone, at least on the WOTC forums said something about not being able to change the way magic/abilities worked. You can't change character advancement. E.g. if at level 1, you get X skills, X feats, X abilities, you can not change it.

I'm still more interested in what someone not selling a product is allowed to do. As far as what Non-Profit (E.g. Fan Sites) can do, we still have to wait and see. That's more pertinent to what people like the CBG and other sites can do.

My opinion of 4e in general is to avoid if possible. I will be DMing one or two sessions, but I wont buy it, or 3rd party 4e creations, so I don't really care about the GSL.

A little gem I found:

Quote from: LeressHere is translation of the BSL by Amy Kou'al (a lawyer and member of ENWorld) at ENWorld
[spoiler]Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License

This is the GSL.

1. You have to send us a letter saying you accepted this license. After you send us your acceptance letter, if we don't get back to you within 14 days, you're good to go. Tell us if any information changes or you might have to send us another one. You can't sell anything before October 1, though.

2. We can update the license whenever we want. It's up to you to make sure you're in compliance.

3. You can only use this license to make hardback or softback books, or electronic books. You can also make anything else to support those books unless we say you can't in Section 5.5.

4. You can use our stuff for free, but you have to follow our rules.

4.1. You can refer to everything we list in the SRD, but you can't redefine any terms in said SRD. You can add more stuff relating to those terms, though. We can update the SRD whenever we want. It's up to you to make sure you're in compliance.

4.2. You have to use our logo on your books. You can use it for other stuff too.

5. Requirements and limitations.

5.1. You can't use our trademarked stuff except in referring to the game and the core books.

5.2. Cut and paste this text block in your book's front somewhere. It has to be readable.

5.3. Cut and paste this text block in your ads. It's okay if some people can't read it unless they wear glasses.

5.4. You can't sell any books until October 1. If you do, you don't get to play. You can tell people you have books coming though.

5.5. You can't sell any web sites, computer-y things, miniatures or character creators that use our stuff. You also can't talk about character creation or leveling, claim to be part of the core books, point to our art, or reprint our core rules text. You also can't use our stuff in something that doesn't play by these rules.

5.6. You can't sell the contents of the SRD or definitions of what's in it.

5.7. You can't use our art.

6. OGL stuff.

6.1. You can convert your stuff to GSL, but you can't sell your old OGL stuff, except for your back stock. You can't convert back ever.

6.2. You can't weasel out of 6.1 either.

6.3. If you try, you don't get to play anymore.

7. Your stuff has to be relatively tame. That means no gore, no sex, and no social injustice, unless we're talking elves hating dwarves. Don't harass anyone or explain how to do something illegal.

8. Don't do anything illegal, either.

9. We get free copies of your stuff if we ask!

10. Ownership stuff.

10.1. We still own all the stuff we own. You can't use any of the stuff we own unless we let you. FYI: This includes the core rules and the SRD.

10.2. If you use someone else's stuff, we're not responsible.

10.3. You have to help us protect all the stuff we own, but we'll pay you. You can't legally argue that we don't own what we own. Don't break what we own either.

10.4. If you break the rules, you have to pay us.

11. Breaking things off.

11.1 We'll send you a note if we're breaking up. If we change our minds about everything we'll tell everyone.

11.2. Everything that seems like it can be permanencied, is.

11.3. If we say you can't play anymore, you have to get rid of everything yourself. You can't pretend like we didn't break up with you, either. If you ask us, we might let you keep some of the stuff you made, though.

11.4. If you break the rules, we might have to go to court. You have to pay us for that too.

12.a. You have to tell people that you own all your own stuff, unless it's somebody else's.

12.b. You can't agree to all this stuff for someone else who's not you.

12.c. You can't agree to this if it means you'd have to break some other agreement.

12.d. You can't violate anyone else's copyright.

12.e. You can't violate anyone's privacy or say anything bad about them.

12.f. You have to do what the government says if they're helping us.

13. We don't guarantee anything.

14. If someone else blames us for your stuff, you have to say it's your fault.

15. You can play, but that doesn't necessarily mean we're friends unless we talk first.

16. You can't tell someone else that they're allowed to use this license.

17. If you break the rules and we ignore you, that doesn't necessarily mean we're going to ignore you next time.

18. You can make your stuff and we can make our stuff, but you can't blame us if our stuff competes with your stuff. We can also ask other people to use their stuff that you might already be using, and you can't complain.

19. If we have to go to court, we're gonna do it in our backyard. No jury, though.

20. If the judge says part of this license is illegal, you still have to play by the rest of it.

21. That's it. We'll call you if anything changes.[/spoiler]

Good news everyone!
(probably)

QuoteWizards of the Coast announces a forthcoming revision to the Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition Game System License (GSL) and System Reference Document (SRD).

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4news/20080811

Though the fansite policy is apparently still that the fansite policy will be release at a later date.

Why announce an announcement? Why not just announce what you actually want to announce?  

EDIT: Oh, and thank you, brainface, for bringing this news to our attention! :) I probably would never have found it!