What Can People Do?

Nomadic · March 15, 2009, 04:04:39 AM

Note that I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing out that it isn't correct to simply discard strength when dealing with climbing as it makes up a good 50% of the skill.

Superfluous Crow · March 15, 2009, 08:08:58 AM

As to the original question, wouldn't it be easier to just look over other rule systems and compare them to find the best speed/time? They have probably all done a good deal of research on it. Otherwise these questions pop up occasionally on those question/answer pages; i remember finding average land speed there.

Raven Bloodmoon · March 15, 2009, 12:35:20 PM

Quote from: NomadicNote that I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing out that it isn't correct to simply discard strength when dealing with climbing as it makes up a good 50% of the skill.

Ah, misunderstoood that. Still, I don't think strength really makes up that large of a percentage unless you're novice; I'd rather say endurance makes up about 50% of the skill. A marathon runner doesn't necessarily have particularly strong legs, but they never need rest. The same marathon runner will look like he's in really good shape, nonetheless.

@Crow, That's the easy solution. Without many details on this game system, it's hard to give too much specific help. Heck, Nomadic and I could be debating a moot point because strength could include endurance for all we know. As for human norms, that information can be found at a library if not online; he'll just have to decide how his system will represent thsoe norms (if norms are what he's after).

beejazz · March 15, 2009, 12:43:15 PM

Strength does include endurance in my system, linked in my sig.

And... would you say that the primary factor is dexterity or is it more skill and experience? Because those are different things (being trained in a skill as opposed to the skill being dexterity based).

Nomadic · March 15, 2009, 12:47:22 PM

Quote from: Raven Bloodmoon
Quote from: NomadicNote that I wasn't disagreeing with you, just pointing out that it isn't correct to simply discard strength when dealing with climbing as it makes up a good 50% of the skill.
Ah, misunderstoood that. Still, I don't think strength really makes up that large of a percentage unless you're novice; I'd rather say endurance makes up about 50% of the skill. A marathon runner doesn't necessarily have particularly strong legs, but they never need rest. The same marathon runner will look like he's in really good shape, nonetheless.

Muscular Endurance is actually a type of strength. Properly you would have power and endurance subskills for strength, but that's only acceptable in a skill based system that can have alot of simulation. Fort of course functions in a way to catch that but it is a catch all and thus inadequate (plus it has more to do with the mind than the actual capability of the muscles). Anyhow that's my 2 copper pieces.

SDragon · March 15, 2009, 05:58:31 PM

Quote from: Raven BloodmoonHalfling, go back and look again and you'll see that yes, splits are common, but where the legs are most useful is in propelling the body. Find places where he looks like he's just doing a chinup and see if he's not using his legs. I don't think I ever really do chinups unless I screw up and need a fast out because my grip is slipping. Really, the three keys are grace, precision (put your toe exactly where it needs to be; don't just slide it into position), and not stopping. The slower you move, the longer you're climbing and the more tired you get. Use muscles that don't get tired as easily - you're legs. Arms and back are just to keep you from falling off. Even when you're upside down.

First, I'd like to point out that we have experience climbing two completely different types of terrain. As I said earlier, I'm more of a tree-climber, and your comments suggest that you're more of a rock climber. In a game system, they're close enough to count as the same thing, but realistically, there's a lot of little differences.

Anyway. I made the chin-up comment as a very rough equivalent. I know you almost never use your upper body exclusively. The motions and efforts in climbing are, as far as I can tell, unique to the activity. Chin-ups were the closest equivalent I could think of for the upper body motion of lifting your body.

Superfluous Crow · March 15, 2009, 06:25:12 PM

Alternatively, you could have climbing involve a set of tasks. Maybe create the mountain as a "creature" which had different "attacks" like crumpling foothold, distant handhold, perpendicular wall and scorpion nest. The ability required would depend on what "attack" was used.
Other than that, there are systems where skills are not affected by attributes. If you want the abilities to have some effect, you could make it so they reduced the cost of the skill.
I reckon that these ideas won't be of that much use since you are too far in the creative procedure, but might be some inspiration.

Raven Bloodmoon · March 15, 2009, 06:26:52 PM

Halfling, fair enough. Climbing is a tricky one to figure out. I suppose it's really the only movement type that would be difficult to work out for a system, since it covers so many situations and types of movement. As much as I'd hate to say it (as I'm not a fan of spitballing lots of variables at once), a mess of modifiers might be the best solution to tailor the skill to the action. Alternatively, leaving it very general and just letting the DM guestimate (with some sort of general guide) might be a better solution. I suppose it is mostly up to the style of system that beejazz likes.

beejazz · March 20, 2009, 02:11:15 PM

To start with jumping...

I'm thinking that a long jump would be DC4 (or DC 3 with a running jump) where failure indicates two squares (each 3-4 feet) and success indicates two.

High jumps would also be DC4 and 3 with a running jump, where failure indicates a 3 foot jump and success indicates a 6 foot jump.

And as with all my movement skills, someone with skill focus could take a feat to move +1 square on a success.

Reasonable?

(oh, and the DC is the number of dice you roll, trying to roll at or under your skill... which will be between 5 and 20 for a starting character)

Matt Larkin (author) · March 20, 2009, 03:29:18 PM

Quote from: beejazzI'm thinking that a long jump would be DC4 (or DC 3 with a running jump) where failure indicates two squares (each 3-4 feet) and success indicates two.

You mean failure is 1 and success is 2, right?

beejazz · March 21, 2009, 01:12:30 AM

D'oh...

Long jump is 2 on a failure, 3 on success.
High jump is 1 on a failure, 2 on success.

Remember.. these are 3-4 foot squares, as opposed to the 5 foot squares of D&D.

Porklet · March 26, 2009, 02:05:20 AM

Quote from: Raven BloodmoonPorklet, in Gurps, it's based on Dexterity.

The Base Speed in GURPS (which is converted to find climbing speed, swimming, etc.) is based on Dexterity and Health (overall fitness and/or constitution). It does not use Strength as a factor due to higher Strengths also raising the character's average Weight.

The system is pretty convoluted, but it excels in realism. A character can also buy enhanced movement (running, swimming jumping, etc.), but an average human is accurately reflected in the rules. There are issues with long term movement (hiking, marathons), but broken down into small intervals it's quite believable.

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What Can People Do?

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