The Campaign Builder's Guild

Just aesthetically, I like green /  black. But then again I haven't played since about 2002 or 2003 ish, and I was never very seriously into the game anyway.

Quote from: Ninja D!Red is much faster than green. burn.burn!Burn!BURN!BURN!!BURN!!!

Errr...sorry.

For color combos, I have a sweet black / white deck and I think that is the best combo.

Red is faster at killing but Red also leads to empty hands. That's why Blue is better for single card control/destruction (Blue has draw cards). But for sheer speed and mana development, Green is unparalleled.

I never need more than maybe three lands playing red. I like my goblin deck and games pretty much never go past the 10th turn.

Quote from: Ninja D!I never need more than maybe three lands playing red. I like my goblin deck and games pretty much never go past the 10th turn.

Yea red is insanely fast and the direct damage is hell against anything outside of heavy control/heavy cancellation. Only major danger for red is if your opponent is playing a green deck with heavy healing and big beaters with trample (or possibly a black life loss deck). Blue and white can stop the damage but their creatures are much easier to take down so you often get a stalemate. If it's red vs white stalemate the winner is whoever is luckier/better. If it's a red vs blue it's about the same unless blue has some nasty milling combos (in which case red is going to get raped).

Quote from: Ninja D!I never need more than maybe three lands playing red. I like my goblin deck and games pretty much never go past the 10th turn.

I'd say 4 would let you sit pretty. 1 for a red weenie goblin and 3 for either a beatstick or something like Char. Or 3 more little goblins, lol.

One of my favorite Goblin cards was Empty the Warrens:
 

I used to be able to get a TON of goblins in my old R/g Goblin deck.

I'll admit to being a simpleton: Green is my favorite of the colors. I don't prefer it because of its speed, but rather its ease of play; drop a big guy, hit people with it. Play elves and get them out faster. Call me dumb, but I never got into the complexities of playing Blue or Black and carefully calculating my turns... consequently, I also have a particular penchant for Red. I also like cards that just mess with the whole game, like Warp World or coin flip cards.

To me, that's fun Magic :]. My best friend plays a nasty blue control deck, and he always schools me; countering my big guys. I sometimes beat him with my Red deck, but usually just because I play so unpredictably he can't figure out how best to try and stop me. Ah well...

Problem red?

Green stuff is still about the most expensive. Drawn into a longer game, red wouldn't stand a chance. The way I play red, though, there are no long games.

Quote from: Ninja D!Green stuff is still about the most expensive. Drawn into a longer game, red wouldn't stand a chance. The way I play red, though, there are no long games.

I've seen a green deck do some nasty things to red with healing and regeneration to keep the game going long enough for mana acceleration to swing things over to its side so it could drop a plated slagwurm. Then again the guy playing the green deck was out to get the red guy (who liked decks like yours... which constantly raped the greenie).

Quote from: Nomadic

Quote from: Ninja D!Green stuff is still about the most expensive. Drawn into a longer game, red wouldn't stand a chance. The way I play red, though, there are no long games.

I've seen a green deck do some nasty things to red with healing and regeneration to keep the game going long enough for mana acceleration to swing things over to its side so it could drop a plated slagwurm. Then again the guy playing the green deck was out to get the red guy (who liked decks like yours... which constantly raped the greenie).

The trouble is, they have to get the many to do that sort of thing. Even if the green in built to destroy the red, at that point it will come down to luck.

[blockquote=Ninja D!]Green stuff is still about the most expensive.[/blockquote]Even though it has some of the most expensive creatures (Wurms etc) isn't Green the most cost-effective colour, Blue the least cost-effective (i.e. you get the biggest creatures for the least mana with Green)?

My favorite red/green deck I ever played used Fires of yavimaya.

 4x Wild Mongrel
 4x Basking Rootwalla
 4x Fiery Temper
 
 Other green creatures like blastoderm helped. But once you got the fires out, it was game over. Early turns involved the mongrel and dumping all kinds of madness cards into it. 5th turn kills were not uncommon with that bad boy. I had to take it apart because my circle of gamers got so pissed at it.

[spoiler=What is White best at?]    * Damage prevention and life gain: White is a protector first; it has many cards that prevent damage to itself and/or its creatures. In addition, White places great emphasis on the continuity of life, and endurance. It can restore life to a player, allowing that player to shake off the attacks of the opponent. To contrast, whereas Green life gain cards always have life gain as the main effect, there are White cards whose principle effect is not life gain but have that as an added bonus, making White the best choice for keeping up a life total while  fighting off the opponent. Note the lifelink  keyword ability, primary in White. Examples: Angel of Salvation, Ancestor's Chosen, Reverse Damage

    * Small creatures (Weenies): White uses the strength of cooperation and discipline to assemble a powerful army out of small creatures. Often these creatures have abilities that make the whole group stronger. Examples: Knight of Meadowgrain, Steadfast Guard, Veteran Armorer

    * Rules-setting and "Taxing": White values order and law, and so it has ways of restricting the actions of players so that they do not do anything which White considers unnecessary or unfair. This can be outright denial of privileges (rules), or an imposition of some form of "cost" on a regular part of game play (taxing). Rules-setting on players is commonly symmetric, while taxation is asymmetric. Examples: Rule of Law, Windborn Muse, Recumbent Bliss

    * Artifact and enchantment destruction: Although White is attached to both these types, it sees vice in their excess. White mana has the ability to purge what is false, to take away the vestments in which wickedness hides. Since even early years of the game, no White card able to destroy an artifact is unable to destroy an enchantment, although there are many which can destroy an enchantment but never an artifact. This creates an asymmetry in costs. Recently (with the rotation of Disenchant from Standard), White is able to destroy enchantments with much less effort (less mana) than for artifacts. Examples: Demystify, Tempest of Light, Dispeller's Capsule

    * Balance and uniformity: White has a sense of honor and fair play, which is seen in its use of mass destruction effects, and other 'equality' spells. "Mass destruction" spells reduce all players to possessing no more of any resource than that of the player with the least, and oftentimes, they set that quantity to zero. In addition, White believes in making the world uniform. Differences cause individuals to dissent and dislike one another. Differences only allow for unrest. In sameness, there is fairness, and the way to consider a person justly is more clear. Examples: Wrath of God, Balance, Mirror Entity

    * Combat superiority: Ultimately, White wants to create peace. It has no interest in prolonging warfare and hates to kill even its enemies. As a result, White emphasizes the need for strong, effective methods to bring an engagement to a close - or at least bring the enemies offensives, and resistance, to an end. In addition to spells which banish or utterly destroy attackers or blockers, White has creatures with abilities representing skills (e.g., archery) that allow White's team to break up stalemates, protect each other from the enemy, and in general, facilitate the end of the hostilities. Examples: Neck Snap, Ballista Squad, Loxodon Mystic

    * Total defense: Above and beyond the degree to which White seeks options to expedite combat, it has every ability to stop attackers and other aggressors in their tracks. It will punish anything which causes - or even threatens to cause - pain. In this way, White magic sends a clear message, and it is that those who dare to inflict harm, will soon meet their maker. Examples: Hail of Arrows, Reciprocate, Retaliate [/spoiler]

 [spoiler=What is Blue best at?]    * Card drawing: Blue is the color of knowledge and research. As such, it is the best at expanding its mind, represented by drawing additional cards. This also comes about via card selection (i.e. the "looter" ability), which enables Blue to keep its ideas and plans relevant and up to date. Examples: Inspiration, Merfolk Looter.
    * Counterspells: Blue is disposed to deny or reverse its opponents' actions, rather than take actions of its own. Blue's logic empowers it to prevent others from taking actions it deems foolish. The use of "countermagic" reflects Blue's understanding of magic itself: dismantling opposing spells at their fundamental level. Examples: Cancel, Mana Leak.
    * "Return to hand" (Bounce) effects: Blue is the color most adept at manipulating time. The use of bounce effects net crucial tempo for Blue, slowing its opponents long enough for a permanent solution to be found. It is an element of Blue's technological aspect: changing the environment, in precise ways, to its advantage, such as by removing an attacker or blocker, or preserving one of its own permanents. Examples: Boomerang, Evacuation.
    * Tapping and untapping permanents: These effects come from Blue's tricky nature. The untapped status is necessary for certain actions, and for some of those, it is expended (the permanent becomes tapped). Due to this, Blue can slow or disrupt its opponent with tap effects, or untap its own permanents for extra and perhaps unexpected uses. Examples: Twitch, Puppeteer.
    * Gain control (theft) effects: Blue is a controlling color. It believes it knows best how to use others' resources. It is also very practical about combat, turning its knowledge of the mind toward controlling it. Examples: Persuasion, Take Possession. [/spoiler]

 [spoiler=What is Black best at?]    * Creature destruction, including toughness reduction: Black is the color that most embraces death as a tool. It sees the ability to take a life as exerting the greatest power over others, and so will ruthlessly demonstrate this power against its enemies. Examples: Sudden Death, Dark Banishing.
    * Discard: Black is able and willing to cause mental trauma to others. As a result, black can cause its opponents to discard cards. Examples: Mind Rot, Hypnotic Specter.
    * Reanimating creatures: Black has no compassion for the dead, nor any moral inhibitions about exploiting them. As a result, black will force its creatures (or even those of its enemies) to serve it even from beyond the grave. Examples: Zombify, Animate Dead.
    * Sacrificing itself and others for power: Black will not turn down any opportunity to gain power, even if it comes at great personal risk. As a result, black will enter into agreements with powers other colors would never go near. This gives black access both to under-costed creatures and powerful effects such as card drawing, but they are balanced with dangerous drawbacks. examples: Dark Confidant, Lord of the Pit.
    * Draining life from others: Black is parasitic in nature, growing through taking from others. Its ability to siphon life from creatures and players is reflective of this. Examples: Soul Feast, Consume Spirit. [/spoiler]

 [spoiler=What is Red best at? ]    * Direct damage (Burn): Red favors direct action. It doesn't waste time looking for ways 'around' a problem - it blasts a path clean through. When the obstacle is a physical thing, Red employs this solution literally, throwing fire, rocks, or anything else at the problem until it goes away. Examples: Char, Fireball, Barbed Lightning
    * Artifact and land destruction: Red's use of destruction goes to a deep philosophical origin, although it is frequently explained as unthinking glee. Briefly put, order arises from tradition, which occurs when some things are constant or expected. Chaos is the counter to order because chaos is change - unsettling change. When everything is changing, people are free, because there is no tie to "the way things were." Since Red wants freedom, it uses chaos. Destruction is clearly a force of chaos; it changes the world by removing something from it. Additionally, since Red is in every other respect a short-term thinker, the disruption effect of destroying your opponent's resources before they are used can be quite valuable. Examples: Shattering Spree, Demolish, Volcanic Awakening
    * Aggressive creatures: Red is capable of mounting a quick offensive, hoping to blitz its opponents before they have a chance to react. Unlike White, Red's creatures are focused almost entirely on the attack; little to no thought is given to blocking or endurance. Red creatures can be fast, at the cost of consistency, long term resources, or harm to the controller. Examples: Ball Lightning, Jackal Pup, Goblin Cohort
    * Gambits and short-term mana acceleration: Red wants to act on its desires without delay, whatever the cost. As such, its magic can give itself sudden, potent, but short-lived boosts of energy, or create high-risk-high-reward effects. This enables Red to do powerful things quickly and easily, though they carry the risk that, if the opponent recovers, Red's resources will "burn out." Examples: Seething Song, Fiery Gambit, Final Fortune
    * Trickery and randomness: Red is the color of pranksters; Red enjoys playing tricks on its enemies and changing the effects of their magic. Blue interferes with magic also, but it specifically controls the magic for its own long-term profit. Red is concerned more with taking control away from its enemies - forcing them to deal with the unexpected. Sometimes Red can dictate the new effect, sometimes it is random. Such trickery includes temporarily gaining control of permanents, preventing creatures from blocking, and changing the targets of spells, though some cards in this category are truly unique. Examples: Reroute, Confusion in the Ranks, Tide of War [/spoiler]

 [spoiler=What is Green best at?]    * Powerful creatures: As the color of nature and growth, green is able to field mighty creatures with ease. Although other colors have access to cheap creatures or strong creatures, Green alone has access to efficiently-costed creatures at any cost. Examples: Verdant Force, Ravenous Baloth, Elvish Warrior
    * Token creatures: Tying in with green's creature focus and emphasis on growth is its ability to generate large numbers of token creatures. In green, these effects are often repeatable and represent an ever-expanding community of creatures. Examples: Thallid, Centaur Glade.
    * "Pump" effects: Green's philosophies of growth and strength both mean it can boost the power and toughness of its creatures, making them more effective in combat. These boosts can either be temporary, though instants and sorceries, or permanent through enchantments and +1/+1 counters. Examples: Giant Growth, Thrive.
    * Permanent mana acceleration: Green's focus on growth enables it to permanently expand its mana base, both through putting additional lands into play and through creating creatures and enchantments that generate additional mana. Examples: Rampant Growth, Llanowar Elves, Overgrowth.
    * Mana fixing: Green's community aspect means it is the best color at creating other colors of mana, either through being able to search for other lands or through changing one color of mana into another. Examples: Farseek, Orochi Leafcaller.
    * Artifact and enchantment destruction: Green hates illusions and the artificial, seeing them as perversions of the natural world. Thus, green actively works to destroy such things. Examples: Naturalize, Viridian Shaman. [/spoiler]

Quote from: Ninja D!

Quote from: Nomadic

Quote from: Ninja D!Green stuff is still about the most expensive. Drawn into a longer game, red wouldn't stand a chance. The way I play red, though, there are no long games.

I've seen a green deck do some nasty things to red with healing and regeneration to keep the game going long enough for mana acceleration to swing things over to its side so it could drop a plated slagwurm. Then again the guy playing the green deck was out to get the red guy (who liked decks like yours... which constantly raped the greenie).

The trouble is, they have to get the many to do that sort of thing. Even if the green in built to destroy the red, at that point it will come down to luck.

It isn't hard to do. Just play some library search cards. Actually as I recall he had a slagwurm out on like turn 4. Yea here's the card.



If by turn 5 you have a 13/11 trample swinging (rancor + giant growth) the red guy with his little goblins is going to be screwed.

Green, unfortunately, is always best paired with another color. It just doesn't have any real means of dealing with its opponent's threats outside of mana spam, big  creatures and lots of pumps. Having said that, Green makes every other color better. It makes decks faster, more reliable and all around better.