Dilandri: Discussion

[Stargate525]

First off a non setting comment. I really like the way you have layed the setting out. The format is very easy to read and flows very well. I especially like your little notes about inspiration. It is a peak inside your thought processes on the building. I will admit I may steal the format for my worlds too.

Thanks. I'm glad to see that someone likes those. I'll try and remember to keep adding them in, and feel free to steal the idea.

You mention in the human post that they recognize only political boundaries vs racial ones. Is there a reason for that?

Yes. The humans as a collective are dozens of different kingdoms, and do little as a cohesive race. They are the only ones like this in Dilandri with the exception of maybe the dwarves. When dealing with another race, the humans don't see 'the halfling nation,' they see each individual territory as a different kingdom, and they cna't understand why the type of politics they have is not present among them.

Your regions section again is excellent. You have given such little details as 'the second and third largest rivers' which draws the reader further into the world. I look forward to seeing more maps!

I'm considering re-doing the maps, if I can find a different idea for mountains.

Religion-I have to say creating 30 gods is a massive undertaking. Hats off to you. I like the Five a lot. You are excellent at tying your ideas together. I like the gnome/halfling split from Quarren, but was wondering if there was a reason that Theomis hadn't created his own race by then since everyone else had. The lost child of Quarren is inspired. As a player I would want to find out anything I could to discover who that was. Your gods are well thought out and cover just about anything a person would want to worship.

Believe me, it was hard as heck to do. You missed something though, Theomis is the patron of Dwarves and Halflings; the dwarves he created, the halflings he adopted. It's kind of interesting to me, but both of the things you mention liking came around by accident. I needed a reason that the lawful god had two races, and I had six gods under the Lilnith and only four under Quarren, and I needed to balance.

I would like to see further expansion on the actual religions of the world. For some reason that part of a fantasy world completely fascinates me and with your complex set of pantheons I think the actual religious heirarchys would be amazing. I would also like to see a chart detailing the Five, their children and then lines connecting the gods to their respective opposed.

Don't worry, more detail is on the way. As for the chart idea, consider it stolen; it'll help me as much as the readers.

Crystals-This is such a nice way to get away from the material components aspect of arcane magic. It appears that you can grow any of the types of crystals that are listed. Are there special requirements or materials needed to grow a Ionir versus a Kuvu?

well there is a minimum caster level, an xp cost, and a gp cost, just like creating normal magic items. You could certainly play it that the character must quest around to find the ingredients, or just that he can buy them from the local shop. If you wanted an idea of what it would be, I'd say a fragment of the crystal they want to grow, probably from one that's been burnt out, some sort of growing medium for the crystal to sit on, and a container to house the mineral water for the crystal.  

Governments-In the dwarven Dauken you mention a metal that can improve other metals. Did I miss this metal being named or explained?

no you didn't. I haven't gotten to the section on special materials yet.

Chronology-excellent work on describing the various moon phases and how those days are viewed by the populace. And how it impacts magic.

Thanks. I'm still a bit on the fence about keeping the magic impact or not, but I think it only enhances playing one.

I'm trying to figure out a way to get a calendar up, so watch out for that.

Dragonfest- so do both the dwarves and halflings celebrate this festival? And separately? The way I first read it it seemed that they took turns being in charge of it. By the end it is obvious that they each do celebrate it. I would be interested in knowing more of this story.

The dwarves and halflings celebrate it separately, they don't like each other, remember? I'll probably get the full story in under myths and legends, once I figure out the whole thing.

Myths and Legends- your side note says that you are going to play to your strengths and you do. Each one that is currently listed is in a different 'voice' that makes it very easy to believe that it was written by a different race. Excellent job. I can't wait to see what other Myth and legends you create.

This is the best part of your entire review, mostly because it's stroking my ego ;) . I'm glad to see I'm not delusional when I talk about my writing skills. Expect some more this weekend, I've got monday off.

Even though we both of a Five themed worlds you have used that idea much more pervasively throughout your world to its benefit. I look forward to reading more.

Thanks again, I look forward to creating more. :)

...oh, and check your inbox.

[Tybalt]

Hi there--out of curiousity how much racial intermingling is there? If the gnomish nation is split into three governed areas that are independant but cooperative and humans for instance don't know about it then I take it there is little interaction on a regular basis? (I assume btw that merchants must travel there but perhaps not many?)

[Stargate525]

Hi there--out of curiousity how much racial intermingling is there? If the gnomish nation is split into three governed areas that are independant but cooperative and humans for instance don't know about it then I take it there is little interaction on a regular basis? (I assume btw that merchants must travel there but perhaps not many?)

There actually is quite a bit of intermingling. I said that ignorant outsiders wouldn't know, meaning that people who have just heard about the gnomes might assume that they are a single country.

Perhaps I should have been more clear.

[Kindling]

I really like the setting as it appears so far, especially the emphasis on trade and travel. Gives a great excuse for the characters to go out and explore the world even without anything massively out-of-the-ordinary going on to force them to.

I also like your honourable, jungle-warrior Halflings. More on them would be great.

The one thing that immediately struck me about this setting that I didn't like, was the use of the old "madcap inventor" archetype for the Gnomes. In fact, I only skimmed the entry on Gnomes after catching a couple of keywords that put me off. Now, that archetype may well work fine for you, and many others, but it's one I don't think I can ever like :P

Your Gods are good, I like the fact you have a God "of the elements." It's a pretty swish idea that I'd been toying with myself for quite a while. I also like the concept of each of the "Big Five" having their own "Little Five"

As you may be able to tell from the way I'm writing my own setting, I'm a big fan of using narrative to paint pictures of the world's elements. I always find this gives a much more vivid image than regular descriptive text (although some people have such a way with words that their descriptions are as vivid as others' narratives).
Anyway, it'd be nice to see a couple of little snippets of narrative, just to illustrate what kind of people live in the world, and what they get up to.

Overall, I like the work. Give me more Jungle Halflings!

[Stargate525]

I really like the setting as it appears so far, especially the emphasis on trade and travel. Gives a great excuse for the characters to go out and explore the world even without anything massively out-of-the-ordinary going on to force them to.

Thanks. I'm in the bad habit of running my campaigns completely urban becuase I don't like  that everywhere needs people's help RIGHT NOW. I wanted a reason to explore the place other than 'kill people and take their stuff'.

I also like your honourable, jungle-warrior Halflings. More on them would be great.

Coming up!

The one thing that immediately struck me about this setting that I didn't like, was the use of the old "madcap inventor" archetype for the Gnomes. In fact, I only skimmed the entry on Gnomes after catching a couple of keywords that put me off. Now, that archetype may well work fine for you, and many others, but it's one I don't think I can ever like :P

Dangit, My gnomes aren't 'madcap inventors' simply because they've got flying machines! They're a brilliant race of philosophers, chemists, surgeons, doctors, radiation scientists...

alright, so they might be a tad bit madcap. ;) That wasn't exactly what I was going for, so it's time for a retooling.

Anyway, it'd be nice to see a couple of little snippets of narrative, just to illustrate what kind of people live in the world, and what they get up to.

So, quotes from historic texts aren't enough then? ;) Narratives, coming up. It'll give me a chance to exercise my writing muscles anyway.

Overall, I like the work. Give me more Jungle Halflings!

I'm trudging as fast as I can damnit! x.

[Kindling]

I'm sorry if I may have slightly misintepreted your Gnomes, as I said I did only skim their entry after seeing a couple of phrases that turned me off to them.

I appreciate that they're a hard race to do well, as every single one of the stereotypes for them is comical. Making Gnomes come across serious is, in my mind, so hard a task that I would never attempt it, but rather simply omit them from a setting, so kudos for trying!

[Poseptune]

I have only read through your Races section so far. I will read the rest later. While reading it I jotted down my thoughts as I read the section. I skimmed this thread and I think there are some answers to questions I asked, like the "Do half-orcs breed true?", but I have not amended the thoughts below.

Races:

Humans:
Humans aren't the most abundant race? I like that it gets away from the norm a little, but not too much which is good. Is taxidermy popular with your Urban Humans? Meaning is hunting a popular form of showing that one has traveled the world, or do your humans just buy items in far off nations and then display them in their home or on their person?

Elves:
What made your Elves so insular? Did your elves know that there was a world beyond the cliffs and choose to stay where they were? How long ago were they discovered? If they wanted to remain hidden why did they not take the gnome expedition captive or even kill them?

Half-Elves:
Who do the half-elves moderate between?

If Half-elves are relatively young in the world how did they get a parcel of semi-fertile land? Since they have there own land do they breed true?

There may be a lot of potential here for a 'new' race. I put new in quotes because they would basically have the half-elf's stats with a new name. They would be a race that when bred with each other spawns another of there kind, but there are those with purer blood. The ones that come from a union of a Human and Elf are the purer bloods. (They can have more of a blending of Human and Elf stats with a +1 maybe +2 level adjustments.) This is your setting so if you don't like the idea you can tell me to bugger off. :)

Gnomes:
Gnomes are tinkerers? I really don't care for this. It is used a lot, but if it works for you then more power to you. Add-On: I suppose they do work well, since a few of your other races are not within the norm.

Halflings:
I like these Halflings a lot. There is not much more I need to say here.

Half-Orcs:
Like Half-elves, do half-orcs breed true?

If banishment is one of the highest forms of punishment; are they very group oriented? Do they value families, and group activities over being alone? If they do it would make being alone even more of a punishment.

Dwarves:
I don't know what to say about the dwarves. I like them, but they seem to be missing something I can't put my finger on it.

Races in general:
While reading your races I found something odd. I definitely like your trade and travel theme you have with the Humans, but after reading your races it doesn't seem to make sense. You have seven races. Of those seven, three are newly discovered, insular, and/or hostile, who don't really need to trade because they don't want to and they have been suppling their own goods for so long. Two are suppliers of grain and other trade items. That leaves only two races that would buy these trade goods and one of those is trying to cut Humans out of the picture. Are Orcs and Gnomes need Human grain that much?

[Stargate525]

Humans:
Humans aren't the most abundant race? I like that it gets away from the norm a little, but not too much which is good. Is taxidermy popular with your Urban Humans? Meaning is hunting a popular form of showing that one has traveled the world, or do your humans just buy items in far off nations and then display them in their home or on their person?

I hadn't even thought of taxidermy. I was thinking primarily artifacts and cultural items. Taxidermy has merit though, so I'll give it some thought.

Elves:
What made your Elves so insular? Did your elves know that there was a world beyond the cliffs and choose to stay where they were? How long ago were they discovered? If they wanted to remain hidden why did they not take the gnome expedition captive or even kill them?

They were discovered some time ago, but the elves remain insular primarily by choice after  seeing how the other races get along. I wanted to heighten the haughtiness that most elves seem to be played with almost to the ridiculous, and this is what I came up with. The reason they didn't screw around with the gnome expedition is that the elves were initially curious, until they actually looked out at the world.  

Half-Elves:
Who do the half-elves moderate between?

Humans and elves.

If Half-elves are relatively young in the world how did they get a parcel of semi-fertile land? Since they have there own land do they breed true?

There may be a lot of potential here for a 'new' race. I put new in quotes because they would basically have the half-elf's stats with a new name. They would be a race that when bred with each other spawns another of there kind, but there are those with purer blood. The ones that come from a union of a Human and Elf are the purer bloods. (They can have more of a blending of Human and Elf stats with a +1 maybe +2 level adjustments.) This is your setting so if you don't like the idea you can tell me to bugger off. :)

Bugger off. ;)

But seriously, that's an idea. Half-elves aren't that new; they are humans with mixed in elven blood. The reason they have that land is that that's where the more explorative elves landed. Once they became a definable separate species, they were shunned.

Gnomes:
Gnomes are tinkerers? I really don't care for this. It is used a lot, but if it works for you then more power to you. Add-On: I suppose they do work well, since a few of your other races are not within the norm.

Sigh... I must have really, really screwed up my description of gnomes. I was aiming for DaVinci, Plato, and Archimedes, not 'blow up your house generic mad scientist.'

Halflings:
I like these Halflings a lot. There is not much more I need to say here.

:)

Half-Orcs:
Like Half-elves, do half-orcs breed true?

If banishment is one of the highest forms of punishment; are they very group oriented? Do they value families, and group activities over being alone? If they do it would make being alone even more of a punishment.

Yes, half-orcs breed true. Banishment is a high form of punishment for two reasons. One, it's difficult for an orc to exist outside of a teamwork setting; they got free from under the orcs by working together, and that tradition still carries over. Two, it's downright dangerous in the regions the half-orcs live. Unless you're very good or very lucky, banishment is essentially a death sentence with a waiting period.
 

Dwarves:
I don't know what to say about the dwarves. I like them, but they seem to be missing something I can't put my finger on it.

Oddly enough, I've had that feeling too. If you figure it out, please tell me. It may be that they're the only race I really haven't tweaked.

Races in general:
While reading your races I found something odd. I definitely like your trade and travel theme you have with the Humans, but after reading your races it doesn't seem to make sense. You have seven races. Of those seven, three are newly discovered, insular, and/or hostile, who don't really need to trade because they don't want to and they have been suppling their own goods for so long. Two are suppliers of grain and other trade items. That leaves only two races that would buy these trade goods and one of those is trying to cut Humans out of the picture. Are Orcs and Gnomes need Human grain that much?

Argh, more spotlight on my faults!  x.

I haven't fleshed out the trade as much as I want to yet. Basically, the only ones that aren't getting grain from the humans are the half elves and the elves. Dwarves and Half-Orcs supply crystals, Halflings supply abundant and as-yet-unnamed resources from their jungle, and the Gnomes are traders in ideas, and make a hefty profit on moving all this junk around.

There's a reason this grian is so popular, but I haven't gotten to that quite yet...

Your review has helped me alot, and I look forward to seeing the rest of it.

[Poseptune]

Half-Elves:
Who do the half-elves moderate between?

Humans and elves.

I thought you'd say that. It doesn't make sense to me. Traditional elves as written would probably view half-elves as mutant spawns of the evil foreigners. They wouldn't need to be moderators between humans and free elves because they've already been mingling. Humans are in direct competition with trade goods and want there land. I know that isn't a really a good reason for Humans, but you even state that Half-elves are reluctant to deal with Humans or Elves.

You state that they are on good terms with halflings. I was kinda hoping that is who they are a moderator for, since the halfings are hostile to almost everyone else.

[Stargate525]

I thought you'd say that. It doesn't make sense to me. Traditional elves as written would probably view half-elves as mutant spawns of the evil foreigners. They wouldn't need to be moderators between humans and free elves because they've already been mingling. Humans are in direct competition with trade goods and want there land. I know that isn't a really a good reason for Humans, but you even state that Half-elves are reluctant to deal with Humans or Elves.

You state that they are on good terms with halflings. I was kinda hoping that is who they are a moderator for, since the halfings are hostile to almost everyone else.

Agreed. Having them mediate between elves and humans seems a little bit odd.

But I'm curious where you got that halflings are hostile to everyone else from this;
[ic]Halflings get along well with almost everyone, especially Gnomes, their main trading partner. Dwarves and Elves are the only two races that they outright dislike; the Dwarves because of the ongoing wars between the two races, and the Elves for their attempted invasion over half a millenia ago.[/ic]

[Poseptune]

Misreading this:"Halflings are indigenous to the jungles of The Southern Continent, their lifestyle built around the myriad of ways one can get himself killed in the depths of the jungle." and partly assumption based off the misreading.

:( They're still cool, but they've lost some of there appeal. I was loving the Hostile Jungle Halflings.

[sparkletwist]

First of all, I'll say there's a lot here and I haven't read all of it. I skipped around a lot to various things that looked most interesting, and especially read up on the different races, so please point me to the right section if some question I've asked is answered elsewhere.

It's interesting how each race has its own qualities and features, and a culture to it. I like that part a lot. I'm not sure about some of the generalizations, though, especially things like "Race X doesn't get along with Race Y," because that seems like something factors in a given geographical area or community could change heavily. Perhaps some of these "racial" characteristics may be better associated with the most dominant nations to be found within each of these racial groups, and be a sort of dispersion of the national culture, rather than some truly "racial" trait. Just a thought, though.

One note on languages: I'm not sure how much sense it makes to have languages defined by species in such a cosmopolitan world. I realize the D&D take on language is rather simple (especially compared to its roots, like Tolkien!), and I'm fairly interested in linguistics and such, so this may all be rather pedantic, but, it seems like linguistic communities would form around social strata or geographic areas, especially in more urban areas. And, in rural areas, well-- why would two people who never come into contact speak the same language?

'Human Lands' is a fallacy; humans do not see racial borders, only political ones.

In the north is a high, rocky arpeggio as the continent gives way to the Sunken Hills[/quote]It is important to note that although I use the word 'technology,' the more appropriate word might be Magology.[/quote]Thus, the dirigibles above might use heat metal, continuous flame, or something similar instead of traditional gas.[/quote]The Elves have an almost Japanese attitude in world affairs, wanting to assimilate everything of the foreign culture.[/quote]Elves are a curious race, wishing to learn as much as possible about other cultures. This tendency, coupled with their xenophobia towards the actual foreigners, creates an interesting tear in the Elven culture while the majority attempt to have their cake and eat it too.[/quote]Half-Elves are almost forced into the spotlight as mediators between the humans and elves, a position they are far from ready to take.[/quote]They lack a strong central power, and so are almost always at war with each other (the famous dwarven logic breaks down in this regard)[/quote]other guy[/i] is the one being illogical. ;)

[Poseptune]

Half-Elves are almost forced into the spotlight as mediators between the humans and elves, a position they are far from ready to take.

Actually that makes a lot of sense and takes most of the oddity out of the equation.

[Stargate525]

In the north is a high, rocky arpeggio as the continent gives way to the Sunken Hills

No, I meant a musical term. I told you that the continent was odd.

 x.  Nice find, fixed. I'll reply to the rest tomorrow morning.

[Ravenspath]

Catching up since my last post and wow, you have added a good deal!

Again I love your Myths Legends section. The elves Book of Five entry is fantastic. How you wove the plant traits into the racial tones blends wonderfully.

What makes the Wind pass lower winds so strong? Are you going with geography or is there some other reason for it?

For Vandaar you mention that this country is almost unknown by outsiders, but then you say that most outsiders don't like it?

Letters of Marque! Yeah! Sorry, but I love this plot device.

Addictive wheat? You are twisted and sick! Such a great idea to expand your trade! Have others tried to grow it in their regions and it just won't grow? Any mutations that are more addictive or have more side effects or withdrawal symptoms?

Love your world. I finally remembered to start tracking it so I can see updates quicker.

Look forward to even more from you!