Datrik Discussion Thread

[Xathan]

This thread is now the discussion thread for Datrik. You can find the rest of the information on Datrik in the Homebrews section

Original Post
[spoiler]Originally posted on the Wizards Boards:

This is a work in heavy development. Everything here is subject to change at a later date. I am looking for all the feedback I can get. Thank you for your time. Everything posted here is PEACH and SIHO.

Basic premise â,¬' Long ago, the world was bombarded by a string of meteor showers that left the surface of the world completely uninhabitable. The surface of the world is barren, lifeless, and completely airless: it is a total void; uninhabitable by the life that was native to the surface prior to the day the sky fell. With the meteors came alien life forms, which began to repopulate the void and reform it in their own image.

However, the natives of the World were not defeated. The fled below, into the caverns that extended beneath the surface. Unlike most worldsâ,¬,,¢ underdarks, the underdark of this world is divided into a few distinct layers. The first layer is much like your typical underdark, a twisting maze of tunnels with caverns that rarely exceed the size of a large city. The second layer is actually one massive cavern, separated by columns of rock the size of mountain ranges. Called the lowerlands, it is native to as many species of fungus as the surface once held plants. Bioluminescent fungus provides light for the lowerlands, and most of the races of the surface fled here. Below that is the deeperdark, which is much like the underdark but exists below the Lowerlands. The final layer is the flames, a series of tunnels and caverns that flow with the molten lava of the core itself.

Here, the people of the world make their home. Working newfound magics and forsaking old, they forged a new existence in the World Below. Some seek to reclaim the surface world. Others seek to discover what caused the day when the sky fell. Still others seek personal power, and the majority, as always, seek to get along as best they can.

Tone: Horror, and Mystery are the two most common tones found. High adventure and exploration also work well here.

Themes: Discovery (of ancient ruins buried in the Lowerlands, of what caused the sky to fall), Survival in a harsh environment, The Old Wyas vs. The New, Civilization and its construction, Religion vs. Technology vs. Magic, and evolution, both magical and natural.

Other information:
There is not any psionics, arcane, or divine magic, excepting Warlocks. Magic systems that will be uses are Invocations (from the Warlock), Incarnum, Truename, Pact, and Shadow magic (once they are released, I will be adding information about them â,¬' I have seen enough to know they belong in this setting.) Also, I am considering making a new magic system or two for this setting. Irregardless, it redefines traditional party roles, because the best thing a party can hope for as far as a blaster goes is a warlock, and a truename mage is probably the best resource they have as far as healing. Pact magic is the only way to directly gain the power of the gods, though they are seeking to regain the ability to spread divine followers.

People who manipulate crystals, which may be a new form of magic in and of itself, will advance technology. Technology will be applied on a case-by-case basis. Mecha will appear, as will power armor, as will certain forms of advanced weaponry. Living constructs and regular constructs will duplicate robots. Cybernetics may appear as golemtech, and I might develop an Internet like thing using the Ethereal Plane, the Realm of Dreams, the Plane of Mirrors, or the Plane of Shadow as a medium.

The traditional races are, for the most part, out. Dwarves are nearly extinct, elves fled magically to one of the worldâ,¬,,¢s moons, Orcs underwent mutations, halflings died on the surface, and gnomes went the route of the dwarves. New races appeared, either in the magical fallout from the meteors hitting, from the meteors themselves, or from the depths beneath the world.

More will be coming soon. Tell then, what does everyone think?[/spoiler]

[CYMRO]

So we see what races are out.
What races are in?

How aboot the paladin and ranger and druid?  What are the fixes, if any, for them without their spells?

It would seem the setting you describe is a natural for psionics.  

[Raelifin]

If nearly all of the core races (except for humans) died out, why even have them in the first place? They seem like unwanted bagage to me.

Please post more info!

[Xathan]

I'm working on races, and should have them up later on. It's the end of finals week, though, so I'm worked to the bone right now.  :@ To answer your questions, though:

@CYMRO - I'm making a variant ranger that combines ranger abilities with scout abilites, and gives limited meldshaping (similar to a soulborn totemist). Paladins are replaced by lawful good soulborns, and the druid is replaced by the totemist and a new class that focuses on shapeshifting. I'm not a big fan of PRCs, so these will all be core classes.

As for psionics, I am considering puting it in there. In fact, odds are good I will. I'm just worried putting psionics in would make the new systems of magic less appealing, which would hurt what I have in mind for the setting - i want to emphasise the new magic types.


@ Raelifin - I thought about that, but I want some civilizations to have go extinct. Putting them in there means that the civilizations that are lost are ones the players understand and have a slight emotional attachment to. However, they do add some baggage, and since I'm looking to emphasise new stuff here, I might cut them out later.

Thanks for your feedback. Look for an update this weekend, but I might just sleep through the whole thing. :P

[Soup Nazi]

I think for magic if you try to untilze too many systems you find they get a little overwhelming. I really like the idea of making warlocks the primary arcane casters, and as of right now I agree that psionics can fill in the gaps very well. I reserve judgement on the tomb of magic until I see it in action. Conceptually in a world w/o arcane or divine casters I can see how you could make room for it, but it's really hard to build around them until we see what they can actually do. (Incarnum IMHO is terrible. Use it if you like, but magic tied to alignment turns my stomach)

I do really like the idea of a subterranean world, and a blasted surface too hostile to live on any longer. What kind of adaptations were the people (are humans all that's left from above?)forced to make to live in the darkness? I'd like to know a little more about how things work. This is a big departure from regular D&D which may require some serious rules addendums and additions, so you've got your work cut out for you.

Keep us posted, and add a link to your WotC stuff so we can see what else you've already got in the works.

-Lata G-

[Xathan]

I agree too many systems might be too much, but if I cut out Arcane and Divine (excepting warlocks), then I should be fine, IMO. I am keeping Incarnum in there, but I'm almost totally reworking the flavor of it, to the point where I am removing its alignment ties. There is a 90% chance I might even remove the alignment system, or replace it with d20 modern's allegance system, or at least use it in the style of Eberron, where it hardly means anything except for a few spells and effects.

That is definatly the hardest part, adapting the rules and inventing new ones where needed. I'm thinking on those, and will definatly have some stuff on that posted by Monday or Tuesday.

Here's the Rathian, an LA +1 race. The flavor is still limited, since I'm still not sure what niches need to be filled. They are probably going to fill an elvish niche, an anchient but poweful magical (incarnum) race, only without the elvish civilization: more wild, but not feral.

[CYMRO]

I'm not a big fan of PRCs, so these will all be core classes.

Neither am I.  Full classes or nuttin'! :D

[Numinous]

well, prestige classes would be fun for this campaign setting, but if you don't like 'em, throw 'em out.  i'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out.  anything specific you want help with/on?

[Xathan]

Not yet, but I'm really going to be needing help with balance issues - I have a habit of squeezing as many things onto a single idea. Also, I just need feedback, especially on finer details, since I tend to overlook them.

Oh, and for a quick preview of Incarnum, here's how I'm going to work it. An Incarnate or Soulborn can be of any alignment. Upon taking their first level, an Incarnate picks one of the following aspects: Void, Core, Sun, or Storm. Incarnates that choose void shape soulmelds as an evil incarnate, those that chose Core or Sun shape soulmelds as a Lawful or Good incarnate (not sure which goes with which), and those that choose Storm shape soulmelds as a chaotic incarnate. At tenth level, a Incarnate can choose a second aspect, and can from then on shape soulmelds that are restricted to that aspect. A good Incarnate could choose Void, a lawful one Storm.

Soulborns start with two different aspects.

What do you think?

[Numinous]

i'm not familiar with how incarnum works, so I'm afraid I will be of little help in tis area of discussion...

[Xathan]

I'll be posting an update soon, but for now, I really need help!

I'm stuck at the moment - this world can go one of two ways. One way would include the technology and psionics, the other would have none of the technology and no psionics or maybe just no technology type stuff. I really canâ,¬,,¢t do much more until I decide, but I canâ,¬,,¢t make up my mind. My question is, what do you guys think about this?

[Raelifin]

This is one of those things where you need to follow your heart. Nobody but you can decide on your core ethos statement.

[Xathan]

True. I'm gonna have to sleep on this one. Still, advice and opinions would be much appreciated to help me put things in perspective. My mind tends to go into a chatoic jumble when I need to make big decisions for anything creative, so focusing points are much appreciated.

[Xathan]

Iâ,¬,,¢ve decided to put this world on the backburner until about mid-April, when complete psionic comes out. After getting TOM, I realized the flavor for most of the magic systems didnâ,¬,,¢t mesh with the flavor of Datrik, and therefore donâ,¬,,¢t belong in it. Both Psionics and Incarnum fit the flavor I was going for perfectly, so Iâ,¬,,¢m going to be making them the two magic systems of this world, along with the Warlock and possibly Binder. This means I need to do some mental retooling of Datrik before I can work on it, and so Iâ,¬,,¢m letting it sit around. When complete psionic comes out, Iâ,¬,,¢ll have more material that will fit this world, and until then Iâ,¬,,¢ll still be making stuff, but it isnâ,¬,,¢t going to be my primary setting for now.

[Xeviat]

The first thing that comes to mind is that you should probably choose two types of spellcasting and go with them: You don't want to have more than 4 primary spellcasters, with two from each system. But this could change, depending on the way things are explained: unless you want a ton of magic running around, you should keep things limited.

First, a few questions: Are the "aliens" in the world above Aberrations? Are there going to be Aberrations in the deep underdark and the core? If so, perhaps Psionics is their form of magic, and you'll definitely want a PC/NPC (read: low CR/low level adjustment) aberration race to make up the bulk of NPC spellcasters (utilizing all four psionic classes). Imagine reworking the Kaorti from MM2 into an aberration race; wild kaorti wilders, scheming kaorti psions, powerful kaorti psychic warriors, and skulking kaorti soul-knifes. Humanoids may be capable of psionics, but it would be seen as so horribly evil (read "alien") that they would be ostracized; then you could have groups of psionic humanoids living in the underdark, working for the "aliens" to sabotage the humanoids.

The beauty of the ToM classes is that there is only one class for each subset. I definitely think the Binders would work great as a slightly dark, slightly horrific Cleric. You could even toss in the alternate cleric from Heroes of Horror; deities haven't yet reestablished their connections to call clerics/favored souls, but that doesn't stop people from searching.

If you want Warlocks, you have to decide upon the nature of their heritage. Are they demon-born? If they are, then where to the demons come from. What part, if any, did demons play in the falling of the sky. Maybe they aren't demon-born, and they are just "sorcerers", a product of man's evolution, a defense mechanism.

Keeping with the general oddness, do use the Magic of Incarnum classes. If I remember correctly, there are two full casters and two half-casters, correct?

On more of the classes: you have no reason to combine the ranger and scout, just use the scout. Fighters and Barbarians fit all the needed combative roles, especially with the warrior/caster Incarnum class. You can afford to drop the Bard.

I only make so many suggestions about the classes because I think you should keep things as restricted as you can. If there are 20+ base classes, you have to realize that they are going to be common enough to be filling those caverns.

Some Questions: How survival-based are the settlements? Are things peaceful enough to generate NPC classes, or is it going to basically be the PC classes and commoners? (You could go that direction easily).

Lastly: What did cause the falling of the sky? Or is this a big campaign hinging secret that you'd like players to discover eventually?

Some words of encouragement: I don't think you're trying too hard to be different. You have an interesting take on the classic apocalypse scenario. You may also have done it in a way that can actually support multiple campaigns, as it isn't going to be fixed anytime soon.

Keep it coming. Let me know if I can offer any more help.